Interview for Addicted to Midgets, September 2003
1. I know you've answered this one a thousand times but we cannot rest until every last soul if familiar with While Heaven Wept. Can you give us some history on the band?
Essentially, While Heaven Wept began in 1989 following the
demise of the band co-founder Chris Galvan and I were involved with, Polaris.
The line-up and the name changed quite a bit during the first 2 years, and once
the last founding member had departed in 1991, I adopted the While Heaven Wept
moniker. Generally, the compositions have always been dark and emotional, but
things became much more introspective between 1990-91. Around the beginning
of 1993, the line-up stabilized briefly with Jon Paquin on drums, Gabe Funston
on bass, and myself handling everything else. This trio incarnation of WHW was
the first version of the band that made it into a proper studio to record some
of the music that had developed over the course of 5 years. Between 1994 and
1995, we contributed an exclusive track “The Mourning” to your local
compilation cassette “Scenecubator,” (which was later released on
a split 7” with California’s Cold Mourning), released the first
7” “Into The Wells Of Sorrow” (also on your own Open Eye imprint),
and the “Lovesongs Of The Forsaken” MCD.” We also appeared
on various compilations throughout the world including “Nightshade (USA),”
“Time Brings Only Sadness (UK),” and “Funeral Aspects (UK).”
We underent several additional line-up changes before we finished recording
the “Sorrow Of The Angels” album, released on Italy’s Eibon
in 1998. The line-up on the final version of the album consisted of Jon Paquin,
myself, and bassist Danny Ingerson (currently with Relapse recording artists
Dysrhythmia). Shortly after the release of the album, the expanded performing
line-up developed with the addition of Scott and Michelle Loose (both of the
neo-prog band Brave) on guitar and keyboards respectively, and Jim Hunter (of
Revelation/Twisted Tower Dire fame – among others) on bass.
After a few live appearances throughout 1999, WHW was on hiatus while I worked
with the band Brave both in a live setting (in support of the “Before
An Audience Of Stars” album released under the moniker Arise From Thorns),
and compositionally. Brave produced a MCD called “Waist Deep In Dark Waters”
in 2000, but after some internal tensions developed, I refocused my attention
on WHW. Originally the 1999 line-up reformed intact, but soon it became clear
that Jon’s interests had waned, so we went through a series of drummers
before Jason Gray (ex-Forty Days Longing) joined the fold in the fall of 2001.
We’d already been rehearsing all the material for “Of Empires Forlorn,”
in some cases for several years, so we booked the studio for January 2002, and
began tracking for the album. For a portion of the recording, we had an extra
keyboard player, Jake Bodnar, but ultimately his personal issues proved to be
too much for him to work with the band, so the album was completed as a 4 piece
essentially. On Valentine’s Day 2003, “Of Empires Forlorn”
was released on Eibon Records, and we appeared at the Born Too Late festival
in Rochester, NY, alongside our brethren Revelation, Penance, and Orodruin to
name a few. Currently, we’re preparing for the spring 2004 tour in Europe,
which will include headlining appearances at the Doom Shall Rise II festival,
Athenian Metal Night, and Belgian Doom Night. On the recording front, we’ll
be re-recording the out-of-print 1998 album “Sorrow Of The Angels”
with bonus material, and continuing work on the forthcoming “Vast Oceans
Lachrymose” album…both slated for release after 2004.
2. You've been at this for a long time. Sometimes I think you came out of the womb with WHW branded on your forehead. Describe when you first came up with the idea and what you were hoping to accomplish at the time.
When the band first formed as Dream Wytch in 1989, the focus was primarily on musical exploration and experimentation…fusing thrash with doom, death, classical, and progressive elements, and while that is still an underlying premise, once we became While Heaven Wept in 1991, the main motivation was personal expression and emotional catharsis. The goal has always been to compose music that is relevant and brutally honest, which I feel we’ve been successful in doing. It’s never been about popularity, money, or the perks of being a musician, nor have we ever performed Doom strictly for the sake of Doom. As for what was going on at the time when While Heaven Wept evolved into its present form, essentially I was in an emotional hell, tying to cope with a series of personal losses and disappointments. Originally WHW was supposed to be something of an epitaph, but ended up being both an aural diary and the pathway of healing.
3. How would you describe the new album to people who may not be familiar with WHW?
“Of Empires Forlorn” sounds like a hybrid of Candlemass, early Fates Warning, Viking-era Bathory, Bach, and Klaus Schulze, with the vocals of Styx on top…at least that’s the common perception of it. For me personally, I think of it as a modern, heavier take on the 70’s symphonic rock performed by bands like Pulsar, Museo Rosenbach, or even select King Crimson and Van Der Graaf Generator. In theory, it’s still very much an Epic Doom Metal album if you strip away all the layers, and in Europe especially, people seem to hone in on that, which is fine, as that’s exactly where we come from, and we definitely stand apart from bands like Candlemass or Solitude Aeternus in that respect, but there is a lot more to this album than meets the eye. “Empires” seems to mystify people because it evokes feelings of great tragedy and glorious triumph simultaneously, and the only way I can explain that is the fact that the music is as honest as it ever was – the majority of the material was composed during a transitional period in my life, where I was fighting my way back and nursing my wounds simultaneously. Ultimately, I’d say there’s something for fans of all the aforementioned bands and even people into artists as diverse as Novembre, Devin Townsend, Arcturus, Opeth, and Rhapsody.
4. So, the first pressing of "...empires" is now sold out correct? What plans have been made to keep this awesome release available?
There are probably a handful of the digipaks still available, but for the most part, the limited edition Italian pressing on Eibon is now out-of-print. We’ve signed a licensing agreement with the UK’s Rage Of Achilles Records, who will release “Of Empires Forlorn” in the standard jewel case, in an unlimited capacity for the European and North American markets on October 13th, 2003. There will also be a limited edition vinyl pressing coming through Germany’s Metal Supremacy Records, who also released our 2-LP anthology “Chapter One: 1989-1999” in the summer of 2002. I’m hoping to license the album out for the Asian, Australian, and South American markets inevitably as well.
5. I love the rant on the back CD cover about Epic Doom Metal. Has there been some sort of backlash against it?
Epic Doom Metal has never been the most popular form of music to begin with, but it’s not so much that there has been a backlash against it as much as there has been a vast amount of misinformation spread through labels and the media about Doom in general. For many years Doom Metal, stoner rock, and slow death metal have been equated as one in the same by distros, the media, and record companies, and that is simply not accurate. The statement on the CD cover was directed towards a specific record company, but is universally applicable truthfully. Essentially we were told that our style of music is antiquated and hand been done time and time again, which couldn’t be further from the truth considering you can count ALL of the bands from the Epic Doom Metal sub-genre with less than 10 fingers – and the thing is, the label that was citing our apparent lack of originality releases and distributes some of the most obvious clones of bands like Paradise Lost or The Gathering, and we all know there are literally thousands of bands like that! Furthermore, I challenge anyone to put on “Empires” and compare it to anything released by our peers (Candlemass, Solstice, Solitude Aeternus, Millarca, Forlorn, Doomshine, or even Sorceror) and say it isn’t unique or original in that light. Nevertheless, I’ve gone on time and time again about what the definition of True Doom is (to me), and it has nothing to do with hippie/stoner rock like Fu Manchu or Kyuss any more than it has to do with slow death metal like Winter, Obituary, or MDB. Sure, there are parallels in some cases on a surface level, but when you strip away things like the keyboards, violins, and female vocals what you have is a slow death metal band, and lyrics if not the vibe alone distinguishes True Doom from stoner rock. My only point in ever articulating all this is that True Doom was nearly killed off by over-zealous labels tagging anything and everything as Doom, subsequently flooding the market with primarily second-rate bands, which in turn fueled an already apathetic attitude within the media and generally confused the consumers themselves. Needless to say, I do proudly brandish the Epic Doom Metal tag, as that is what were originally labeled and I do maintain a strong devotion to that scene, but at the same time, I feel like we’re now developing into something distinctly our own as well, so essentially at this point, we’re going to carry on performing music we honestly enjoy and feel, whether or not it qualifies as True Doom or something completely different. The bottom line here is integrity, and that is something I won’t ever compromise.
6. Tell us about "Voice in the Wind". Is it a cover?
The German symphonic rock band Jane originally recorded “Voice In The Wind” on their 1977 album “Between Heaven And Hell.” Jane was one of the most popular bands from Germany at that time, along with Eloy, Tangerine Dream, and The Scorpions, but ultimately never made much of an impact elsewhere unfortunately. We determined that there couldn’t be a more obvious choice for a cover than “Voice…” considering how much it sounded like WHW to begin with, but I’d been infatuated with the song for a number of years prior to coming to that realization. The version that appears on the “Empires” album is actually more of an adaptation than a strict cover; I re-wrote the lyrics, composed brand new vocal melodies and parts for all of the instruments – only the keyboard progression is anything close to the original. The idea was to preserve the stark simplicity of the original while making it a proper While Heaven Wept song, and I think we were pretty successful in doing that. We actually recorded an exact cover of the original too, and eventually both versions will surface on a 7” at some point in the future.
7. I know you have always spent alot of time in the studio on each recording (and it shows in the results). How do you feel about Assembly Line Studios and the finished product?
I cannot even begin to tell you how pleased I am with the results of this recording session. Really this is the first time in 14 years, out of all the recordings that I’ve made with any band that I am almost 100% satisfied with. I’m infamous for re-recording songs over and over because they weren’t properly realized in terms of production or performance (as far as what I envision in my head and being a perfectionist…), but this is one time where I can assuredly state that won’t ever happen. We spent a lot of time and our own money (DIY since the beginning!) getting every last nuance and detail right for this album – we didn’t cut a single corner or spare any expense, and while this ultimately put us in some pretty dire straits for a while, it was absolutely worth it. When all is said and done, “Empires” is exactly how Jim and I envisioned it, and exactly what I’ve been striving to achieve all these years since day one. As for Assembly Line and owner/engineer Kevin Gutierrez, I cannot speak highly enough – he literally became an extra member of the band during our sessions there, was VERY actively involved in helping us to achieve and surpass our goals. Kevin knows his equipment, has multiple solutions for any situation, and manages to keep the atmosphere relatively calm, he simply fucking rules…period! There is absolutely no question as to whether or not we’ll be returning to Assembly Line in the future, and I can tell you that “Empires” is only the tip of the iceberg!
8. It's probably a matter of time before the major labels come crawling around and we all know there are pro's & con's. While all previous WHW recordings have been D.I.Y., would you consider interest from a major?
We do consider EVERY offer that comes our way and actually we have already considered offers from some of the major independents in the underground, but frankly they are generally unable to propose anything better than that which we can do ourselves, aside from widespread publicity and possibly tour support. Essentially they’ve offered us the same “bottom of the barrel” deals that brand new artists receive because of our relatively obscure “sub-underground,” “cult” status, but the fact is we are veterans. It’s not because of some illusion of grandeur that we reject their offers, rather we just know we are way better off doing it ourselves – in the case of “Empires” it’s the only hope we have of recouping our recording budget. We’re not that bad off though; we have fans in high places (presidents of labels and well known media personalities), and we still manage to get pretty decent distribution, although that area will improve soon. When all is said and done, our relationship with Eibon is like a family business situation, and Rage Of Achilles simply made an offer we couldn’t refuse, having agreed to all of our amendments. I would like to reiterate though, that we are willing to entertain any offers that come in the future as well.
9. With the scarcity of Epic Doom Metal bands in the world today, what type of bands do you normally play shows with and how is the crowd response?
For the most part we play with Traditional Metal bands, True Doom bands, and Black Metal Bands, primarily by choice. In the past we did some shows with Stoner Rock bands, and that simply did not work out; we are a fucking Metal band, not some hippie rock commune. Needless to say, the crowd response as of late has been overwhelming – we’ve had people singing along to all the songs (which is insane!) and roars of approval from most audiences. In the past, we opted for more of a dark, atmospheric, and emotional approach to the live shows, which was fine for the older material and the premise of the band at that time, but now we simply go out there to fucking slay! It’s all about skull-crushing heaviness and powerful, aggressive energy so we manage to hold our own in virtually any billing. What I’m looking forward to the most is our European tour next year, where we’ll unveil some brand new material that is simply vicious and totally unexpected – and there we’ll be playing with slow Doom bands the whole time! I imagine people will be quite stunned by our blitzkrieg attack from the stage! If you remember the next to last Parasitic show we did, where we only played “Still Waters…” that’s some kind of an indication of what its like Shane!
10. Give us 3 all-time favorite non-doom/metal related artists that have influenced or inspired While Heaven Wept.
Well we have so many influences, metal and otherwise that its always impossible to pick “all-time” favorites, so I’ll just mention the non-metal artists who exerted the greatest influence on our sound…or actually how about this – the genres of music besides metal that influenced us the most? The main three besides Doom/Epic/Traditional Metal being: Progressive Rock (King Crimson, Pulsar, Van Der Graaf Generator, Genesis), Space Rock/Kosmiche Musik (Pink Floyd, Klaus Schulze, Kitaro, Tangerine Dream), and Classical Music (Bach, Beethoven, Chopin, Wagner, Gorecki, Part). Virtually any combination of the aforementioned examples with early Fates Warning, Bathory, Candlemass and Manowar will give you something similar to WHW. The bottom line is we all listen to A LOT of music, from almost every genre, and that gives us more tools to better express ourselves, plus being open-minded helps prevent us from sounding like anyone else.
11. I notice both labels releasing the "Of Empires Forlorn" album are based in Europe (digipack on (Italy) Eibon) and unlimited on (UK) Rage Of Achilles). Do you find there is a difference in the way WHW has been accepted in Europe and the States?
Plain and simple, we belong in Europe. Since day one the European audiences and markets have embraced us, and considering the rather European nature of our sound it’s no surprise. In addition to that, the audiences there are more cultured and open-minded, so they tend to give everything a chance – even if they’ve heard it all before already. You know, I’ve never even bothered to really push WHW here in the US because everyone is so content to devour what they are fed by the corporations and media, that unless you are part of the latest trend, you might as stay in your basement. We rarely even bother performing here anymore. Our fanbase is primarily in Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, etc., so that is what we focus on. If for some reason there ever is a demand for our music here in the US, we’ll be more than happy to deliver the goods, but in the meantime our focus will remain on Europe and abroad.
12. Thanks for the interview brother and thanks for the amazing new cd! Any final words or comments?
Thank you bro! I’m glad to see you’re still involved with the underground after all these years – I can’t count the number of people that have “given up the ghost” and settled into the grind monotony of corporate work or simply turned their backs on the music they once professed to love. Anyway, as always, I appreciate your support and the opportunity to express myself…cheers. If anyone wants more information on While Heaven Wept, please feel free to check out our websites: www.whileheavenwept.net and www.mp3.com/whw. or contact us directly via email plomerus@hotmail.com or snail mail: While Heaven Wept, 4809 Lockwood Lane, Dale City, VA. 22193, USA.
Thanks again man!
Doom Onward…
Ale And Kill…