Interview with www.blooddawn.de (Germany), May 2003

1. Before we talk about the present, let's discuss the past. I know it might be boring for you, but could you please tell me the story of WHILE HEAVEN WEPT from the beginning to today?

I formed While Heaven Wept in 1989 along with guitarist Chris Galvan - previously we had played together in a band called Polaris, and our first permanent drummer Jim Chappell also came from that band as well. We went through a series of line-up and moniker changes (the name While Heaven Wept was insurrected in 1991), before things finally stabilized in 1993 with the addition of Jon Paquin on drums and Gabe Funston on bass. We've essentially performed the same Epic Doom Metal music since our inception, although some of the earlier songs still had some Thrash elements as well. Anyway, the Paquin/Funston/Phillips line-up produced the "Into The Wells Of Sorrow" 7", the "Lovesongs Of The Forsaken" MCD, the WHW/Cold Mourning split 7", and several compilation tracks. From 1995-1997, the line-up changes continued, but eventually Danny Ingerson took up the bass playing duties, and we produced the "Sorrow Of The Angels" CD in 1998. For the shows in support of that album, the line-up expanded to a five piece, and we brought in Jim Hunter on bass (Revelation, October 31, Twisted Tower Dire), as well as Scott and Michelle Loose on guitar and keyboards respectively (from the band Brave - formerly Arise From Thorns). After the shows, we went on a brief hiatus while I worked with the band Brave, but by the beginning of 2001, WHW was already regrouping, and most of the 1999 line-up remained intact, with the exception of long-time drummer Jon Paquin, who'd grown apart from us musically. After going through a handful of drummers, Jason Gray (formerly of the defunct death/doom band Forty Days Longing) finally assumed the role permanently, and Jake Bodnar replaced Michelle on keyboards for a brief period of time. This quintet ultimately recorded latest album "Of Empires Forlorn," along with the first 7" single from it "The Drowning Years." Michelle Loose returned to the keyboard position following Jake Bodnar's departure mid-recording, and this current line-up has been performing select live shows since the release of "Empires." The double-vinyl anthology "Chapter One: 1989-1999" was also released in 2002.

2. What can you tell me about the growth of Tom Phillips from a doom-fan to Tom Phillips as a doom-musician?

This was a relatively swift process, as it was Candlemass' "At The Gallows End" that introduced me to doom metal proper in 1987 (and lead to WHW's formation in 1989), although I had albums from Black Sabbath, Trouble, Saint Vitus, and Witchfinder General, of course, prior to that. I never actually set out to perform Doom exclusively, but events in my life changed the character of the music that I was creating. I'd been a Metal fan since the days of the NWOBHM movement, listening to bands like Saxon, Iron Maiden, Venom, Witchfinder General, Praying Mantis, Def Leppard (etc.), and my tastes grew increasingly more extreme with the coming of Metallica, Slayer, Kreator, Sodom, Dark Angel on through the advent of Death Metal. When WHW first formed we were influenced by Candlemass, Fates Warning, Queensryche, Trouble, Black Sabbath, Celtic Frost, Obituary, Coroner, and Voivod to name a few. Once the music took a more personal turn (following a series of heartbreaking events in my life), a lot of the Thrash elements subsided, and the compositions became more mournful and funereal in pace. It became clear that we were part of the emerging Doom scene, which at the time including only a handful of bands…Cathedral, Solitude Aeternus, Penance, Revelation, Count Raven, Stillborn, and of course the founding fathers.

3. How did you get in touch with this music?

Well, I'd already been involved with the underground and the whole tape-trading movement, so I was very in tune with what was going on in the scene, although, at the time I primarily focused on the Thrash and Death Metal bands. Candlemass was the first time I'd seen the term Doom Metal used, and because they were so unique for the time they'd come out, I found them inspiring and refreshing. Also, because I was growing increasingly depressed after the demise of a significant relationship among other things, I definitely identified with this music very deeply. Thus, I sought to discover more bands in the Doom Metal vein. The "Dark Passages" compilation provided a wealth of information for me, and I was also aware of these slower, darker Death Metal bands developing like Paradise Lost as well. Simultaneously, my own music was becoming more introspective and melancholic, and even if we were essentially a local "garage" band at the time, we were involved with that first wave of Doom Metal in the late 80's/early 90's.

4. WHILE HEAVEN WEPT - great name for a Doom-band, how did you come up with it?

While Heaven Wept refers to the day described in the lyrics of "Sorrow Of The Angels;" In late 1990, on a sunny autumn day, I received a letter from my beloved informing me that she was giving up on us, and that she "was not the only one in this world." It was hard enough to accept the physical distance that had separated us to begin with, but for things to decay as swiftly as they did…was gutting to say the least. Suffocating, knifed through the heart, I collapsed to the ground weeping. The sky turned black and erupted in a violent deluge, as if Heaven itself were weeping with me. This is from where the name originates.

5. You had the highest rotation of band members ever (about 65 members!)! Why has this happened and has that hindered the band as a whole since new members have to be integrated?

If you were to trace our lineage back to its roots, it's pretty much the same story as a lot of bands; that initial line-up forms between school friends and neighbourhood locals - some people are always more devoted than others, or become better musicians faster. That's when it first starts to fragment, along with differences in musical direction. Ultimately, people and their circumstances change, and disagreements are inevitable with any group of individuals. With time, personal chemistry becomes as much of a factor as musical ability, and we've had our share of unmotivated individuals too. The current line-up is definitely the most balanced in all of these areas, as we are comparable musically, and very good friends as well. Of course, the large number of changes has prevented us from being more prolific in terms of recorded output and limited the number of live performances we've done, but on the positive side, every new line-up has taken us to another level musically. These days, we only bring in experienced musicians who can learn swiftly, that we get along with personally, and that have some kind of connection with the music we perform.

6. Is WHILE HEAVEN WEPT Tom Phillips? Is WHW more of a project for you, in which Tom Phillips is the main-character and the other band members are less important?

While I don't think there could really be a While Heaven Wept without me considering the fact that all of the material is entirely based upon events in my own life, I would not go so far as to say the other members are less important. I certainly could not play ALL of the instruments myself, and there is a certain chemistry that is only possible in a band situation. In years past, it would have been safe to say that WHW is MY band, but a core line-up has developed now, so I don't think anyone should perceive it the same way currently.

7. Do you think of yourself as a band-dictator or is WHILE HEAVEN WEPT a democratic band?

WHW is far more democratic now than in years past, for the aforementioned reasons. If an executive decision has to be made, then I do have the final say, but usually we can come to an agreement through majority votes. Since I am not the only member contributing in a financial capacity now, everything is approached in a more democratic fashion.

8. Are your bandmates involved in the song writing?

At this point in time, I am solely responsible for the entirety of WHW's compositions thus far, in terms of lyric writing and musical composition. I am also responsible for 90% of the arrangements as well, although Jim Hunter is now very active in this department too. Between the two of us, we developed every aspect of the "Empires" album, and I do consider him my right hand man. All of the members do make suggestions or bring some ideas to the table, and we at least experiment with every one of them - some of these suggestions do in fact alter the song arrangements, while others are voted out. I've always encouraged the other members to contribute material to the band, or at least find some way to express themselves through this music, which is exemplified by the highly personalized instrumental lines Jon Paquin and Danny Ingerson contributed to the "Sorrow Of The Angels" album.

9. What can you tell me about your actual line-up?

What's great about the current line-up is the fact that, though everyone is a competent (if not stellar) musician, we rely predominantly on "feel" and chemistry rather than striving for machine-like precision (considering this is emotionally-based music). As for the individual members, they all have their unique qualities that contribute to the whole of the band. Drummer Jason Gray came from the now-defunct Death/Doom band Forty Days Longing, so he brings with him experience in performing extremely slow, heavy music, and although he is not nearly as technical a drummer as Jon Paquin, he pounds out the beats with great conviction, which is exactly what we require. Guitarist Scott Loose, once a former student of mine, is also the main songwriter of the band Brave (previously known as Arise From Thorns). Scott and I have a particularly strong musical chemistry, so it would be safe to say that we comprise a classic guitar duo ala Iron Maiden, Queensryche, or Fates Warning. Scott is constantly improving as a guitarist, and is without question one of the best guitarists in our area. His sister Michelle is also the singer/keyboard player from Brave. I think that WHW gives her a different outlet for musical expression, and a chance to focus predominantly on her instrument. I definitely appreciate her organizational skills as well, which come in handy when we're using multiple keyboards/discs. As for Jim Hunter, he is the consummate bassist, never over-playing, always keeping the rhythm grounded, and filling out the bottom end. He's constantly getting practice considering he's active in more than 4 bands!

10. How do you go about writing an Epic Doom-song and what is influencing you (musically/lyrically/etc.)?

Musically, the way I compose in general is strictly through revelation and emotional catalyst - that is how the basic structure of a song develops. Once that skeleton is complete, I flesh out the arrangements using my classical compositional training from college. Sometimes a song will come out as a complete thought, whereas in other cases fragments will develop over a long period of time. I don't ever force anything into being. Lyrically, lines come through revelation at completely random times…while I'm driving, at the pub, mid-conversation, so it is not uncommon to find me scribbling notes away on whatever is available. In either case, my own life experiences often create the need for emotional expression and catharsis, so that is the main influence upon the songs of WHW. Otherwise, I don't have any boundaries beyond honest emotional expression to define whether or not something is Epic Doom, although it is common for it to have a basis in Classical music as opposed to Blues, with vast sweeping melodies, powerful emotions, and often the songs are quite lengthy.

11. What is more important, the lyrics or the music or are both equally important?

Without a doubt, both the lyrics and music are equally important in WHW. For as much depth as there is in the music itself, there is the same amount of meaning in the lyrics - together they complete the catharsis.

12. Do you think, that the lyrics are more important in Doom metal than they are in other genres?

I don't think I would go far as to say that; I think that there will always be instances in any genre of music where lyrics are simply there to fill space, and likewise there are those that have much greater significance and meaning. Consider the mid-60's folk movement or any politically oriented music for that matter, not that WHW is political at all, but there is an example of lyrical importance. Likewise, anything involving intense emotional expression will incorporate vital lyrics in my opinion.

13. Great idea of compiling your whole discography on vinyl. "Chapter One 1989-1999" really is a collectable item. How did you come up with it?

Considering the entirety of the WHW discography from the first decade has gone out of print, I thought it would be a good idea to package it all together in a collection so that both the fanatics and newcomers to our music would have one last opportunity to obtain it. None of those original releases will be made available again at any point in time, although we will make the compositions available in updated forms, which I will discuss further in the next question. Rich Walker of Solstice hooked us up with Metal Supremacy, and all parties involved thought that it would be a great idea to do "Chapter One." I am very pleased with the way it turned out, with the exception of the poor editing on sides 2 and 3, for which I will take some responsibility, having forgotten to specify they should be continuous music, or at least edited professionally.

14. What would you change on your older releases, if you would have the chance to do so?

Well, we've never really captured the production I had in mind prior to the "Empires" album, so that is one issue that I intend to resolve. Additionally, I feel that some of the performances were lacking as well, even if we captured some magic moments on a few of the releases. Because finances as well as experience (in some instances) limited us, it simply was not possible to properly realize everything the way I envisioned it when we originally recorded those songs, but I've always intended to release "more definitive" versions, with denser orchestration and superior productions. Plus, all of the songs continue to grow and develop with every line-up change or series of performances, so more mature renditions would be ideal. Take "Sorrow Of The Angels" from the "Empires" album as an example - that's pretty much what I'd always intended it to sound like, so you can expect that all of these long out-of-print songs will resurface in one way or another, along with a lot of new material of course.

15. Now let's talk about your new album. Why did it take so long to release "Of Empires Forlorn?"

After we finished the "Sorrow Of The Angels" album, the aforementioned quintet version of WHW was assembled, and we played shows in support of that album throughout 1999. Musical differences and various tensions developed within the group, and we fractured apart towards the end of that year. I personally became involved with Scott and Michelle's band Arise From Thorns, and had already contributed some guitar and keyboard tracks to their second album "Before An Audience Of Stars" (which was recorded throughout the summer of 1999). Since we'd overdubbed extra instruments on the AFT album, it was a logical decision for me to join them for the shows in support of that album, which I did. At the end of the year, I relocated across the US, and both bands were originally supposed to do so as well, but that did not pan out, therefore I returned to Virginia in early 2000 and rejoined AFT onstage. WHW was more or less on the backburner at this time, and we began composing new material for AFT - once I started contributing, the band became Brave. In November we entered Assembly Line Studios and produced a 4 song EP entitled "Waist Deep In Dark Waters," to which I contributed greatly. Literally half of that release was comprised of my own compositions, and I was very involved with the other songs as well. It was certainly a departure from WHW, being more of a hybrid between Tori Amos, Rush, contemporary Fates Warning, and neo-prog like Marillion, but it was rejuvenating in many ways. Unfortunately, after such a successful recording, things began spiralling downhill - lack of musical direction and creative differences became apparent, plus I was dealing with some depressive personal issues that lead me deep into the bottle again, which in turn affected my personality and motivation towards Brave, so the tension between us proved to be insurmountable. We parted ways in April of 2001, after writing a few more songs that would eventually end up on their 2002 release "Searching For The Sun." The despair I had been feeling for months had already brought WHW back into the forefront for me, as it has always been my vehicle for personal expression and catharsis. When we reconvened in January 2001, initially Jim, Scott, and I remained from the 1999 line-up, and we had Trevor Schrotz of Brave on drums, but considering the growing tensions between he and I, that did not last for long, so we brought back Jon Paquin for a while. His lack of interest and motivation lead to the difficult decision of parting ways for good after 9 years together, and we filled the drummer slot with Phil Bloxam, veteran of the Washington DC music scene for many years. He'd played in Hellion (not to be confused with the band from California), who did numerous shows with Pentagram/Death Row and The Obsessed in the early 80's, and seemed to be an ideal candidate, but once again interest in other music and lack of motivation quashed this line-up after 6 months. Finally, in October we asked Jason Gray to play drums for us, as he was a good friend of ours already, and he had the experience of playing the Death/Doom band Forty Days Longing, and he proved to be the right choice for WHW. We'd been working on some of the songs that would appear on "Empires" for years by this time, so when Jason came on board, we immediately began rehearsing for the recording of the album, which commenced in February of 2002. We spent about one week each month up until June laying down the basic tracks and some overdubs, but had to take a break until November, as another artist blocked the studio out. We spent the summer further developing the arrangements, and managed to produce "The Drowning Years" 7" released on Maniacal Records in August, as a sample from the forthcoming album. Upon return to the studio in November, we picked up right where we left off tracking overdubs, solos, and vocals…that's when the album started taking on a life of its own. It no longer sounded like "just another Epic Doom Metal album," but we allowed it to blossom in whatever way it would, acknowledging the unique qualities it was taking on. We completed the arduous mixdown just before Christmas, and Eibon Records released "Empires" appropriately, on Valentine's Day 2003.

16. On your new album, on the title track, grunts are used. For me this fits perfectly to the atmosphere of the song, but also it reminds me of your Death/Doom days. Was this a conscious or unconscious "step back" (not meant negatively!)?

It wasn't so much a throwback to our earlier days, as much as it was simply what that particular section of that particular song seemed to call for. We were already diversifying vocally on this album quite a bit, so I saw no reason to not incorporate Death/Black Metal vocals for that more aggressive segment, especially considering that song is heavily influenced by Bathory to begin with. One thing I'd like to clarify is that our Death/Doom days really only consisted of a brief period between 1991 and 1992 when I originally took over the vocal position; original singer Brendan Galvan sang clean vocals exclusively, sounding not unlike a cross between Geoff Tate and David Bowie! I relinquished the vocal spot to Kenny Thomas (who also played guitar with us at that time) in early 1992, and he also sang clean. Following his departure, I returned to the microphone, this time performing clean vocals exclusively because I'd decided that the Death Metal vocals tended to blur the emotion within the music. The only reason the "Into The Wells Of Sorrow" 7" had Death Metal vocals was because it was released on a whim and never meant to be our first official release (and in fact, the cleanly-sung "The Mourning" preceded this 7", having been included on a local compilation); we were in the studio recording the "Lovesongs" MCD, and on one particularly frustrating day of vocal takes, I decided to ventilate my aggression over a couple songs…and they continued rolling tape. Upon hearing the playback, we thought these songs sounded pretty cool with the death vocals, and having been pressed by our local following for years to release something, we decided to do that 7" as a gift for them in particular. It was never widely circulated or promoted, and that is why we included those tracks on the "Chapter One" compilation as well. I don't have a problem with bands that use Death Metal vocals, but generally, they are not appropriate for WHW.

17. In my opinion, "Lovesongs Of The Forsaken" (1995) was your most depressive release (over-the-top mournful Epic Doom Metal!), "Sorrow Of The Angels" (1998) was a very epic release and finally "Of Empires Forlorn" really is very positive if we speak about the atmosphere. Are these conscious steps and what will be the next step in this progress?

There is something of a natural progression from album to album, primarily due to growing experience, the development as songwriters, and increasing financial resources, but that primarily affects the production and performance quality. As far as the mood is concerned, I personally only detect a slight sense of triumph juxtaposed against despair on "Empires," as the album is not exactly "uplifting" in my opinion. This is mainly the result of where my head was while we were recording it, as I felt like I was getting my own back, after the way things transpired with Brave and in life. It's strange to see so many people finding this album to be a positive, inspiring experience, because lyrically, it is probably more depressive and hopeless than ever before. All I can say really about the next album is that it will indeed be very Epic in scope, but will not be anymore "positive" than "Empires;" I think something like "The Drowning Years" is about as uplifting as WHW will ever be, and it is a conscious step to move away from that "more accessible" sound, which I am sure many people would expect us to further explore. The music that has already been composed for the next album actually tends to balance the more depressive movements with violently aggressive passages, rather than "happier" contrasts. In summary, while there is clearly a progression from album to album, "Empires" is something of an island to itself.

18. Also the keyboards on the new album are more dominant than they are on your other releases. That underlines in my opinion that "Of Empires Forlorn" has a positive atmosphere. Also, you use the sound of an ocean on the latest release; your earlier work contained the sound of falling rain. If I consider all that together, my thoughts are correct aren't they?

I think if that is how you perceive it personally then that is correct, and I think to some extent that perspective will differ from person to person. My take on it is that the keyboards contribute to both an Epic and elegiac atmosphere simultaneously. Think about this too…do you really feel sad or doomed listening to Candlemass or Trouble? Most people don't, but if you were to listen to Gorecki's Symphony No.3 or Barber's Adagio For Strings, chances are there would not be a dry eye in sight. Having said that, if you removed the layered vocals and the keyboards from "Empires," you'd have an Epic Doom Metal album not that far removed from Solstice or Candlemass really. Likewise, if you removed the band from the orchestral arrangements, you would have some deeply moving, melancholic music. As an example of this, you'd only have to listen to the closing track "From Empires To Oceans," which is anything but positive, and literally the same progression as the title track of the album (barring the ending). For some reason the combination of elements has a different effect, and I'd endeavour to suggest this is largely in part due to the major third harmonies, and the overall Epic nature of the combined elements. Eventually, I will record strictly orchestral versions of various WHW songs from all the albums, and I think you will find little in the way of hope or light.

19. Unlike the music, the lyrics of "Of Empires Forlorn" are as always very sad and sometimes depressive. How important are they actually for you?

They are very important, because they not only describe what I was feeling and have lived through, but also say things that I could not express anywhere else but within the medium of WHW.

20. How do you manage to write about some very personal and autobiographical things that many people will read?

Generally speaking, all of my songs are directed towards or refer to a specific person or persons, and I figure since most of them are written in first person, the average listener will interpret them into their own life. I make it a point to live very honestly, even if that means admitting pain or weakness. I wear my heart on my sleeve, and I could not compose lyrics in any other way. I NEED to be as honest as I am for my own health and sanity.

21. Has there been so much negativity in your life that you are only able to write such lyrics, since you've lost your love?

I've lived a pretty hard life, and spent many years in a misanthropic, isolated, and depressed state. During the years that the material for "Lovesongs…" and "Sorrow" was composed, it was extremely difficult to not write about that particular relationship, as I tore myself apart looking at every possible angle. The majority of the songs were composed shortly after the demise of that said relationship, but there were others written in the succeeding years, that both looked back to the past with regret and into the future with despair. There was really nothing more to say after I completed the song "To Grieve Forever" (which was recorded but omitted from the final "Sorrow Of The Angels" tracklisting). Things finally came full circle in my life last year, so at least there is some resolve regarding that particular relationship, and with WHW, beginning with "Empires" I've begun discussing events that have occurred in the ten plus years since. Thus, the lyrics have diversified quite a bit, but are no less honest and poignant than before. Perhaps someday my life will be peaceful and the pain will dissolve. But I doubt it.

22. On "Of Empires Forlorn", there´s a cover of CANDLEMASS´ "Epistle No.81". Why have you chosen this song and don´t you think that a cover is not the best choice for a full-length album, on which you only find four new songs, a cover-tune, a new version of an old song and an instrumental? Wouldn´t it have been better, to include this tune on an EP or MCD (don´t misunderstand me, I really like your version of the song!)?

I hear what you are saying as far as saving covers for EP's and such, and theoretically, when we began planning the "Empires" release, it was going to be as much; Originally "Empires" was going to be released by The Miskatonic Foundation, and at the time it was going to consist of 2 new songs, a cover and a re-recorded older composition. Rich Walker insisted in time that we include more and more new songs, to the point of eliminating any old material from being included, which did not coincide with my plans for the release or WHW. I always have a very definite vision of what a release should be; it all has to do with the flow between songs and logically arranged concepts. What is ironic, however is that we ended up developing more new material anyway, and by the time we'd worked out an agreement with Eibon, "Empires" had grown to full-album length. For me personally, I tend to survey the album as a whole, and I'm extremely pleased with the journey from start to finish, therefore I don't think I would change a thing about its tracklisting. "Epistle No.81" is the perfect transition between "Soulsadness" and "Sorrow Of The Angels" in my opinion, so in this case, I'd disagree that it would've been better to include on some kind of a single instead of the album. But I do understand your thoughts about that as well.

23. Why have you included a new version of "Sorrow Of The Angels"? Do you think, that it fits to the rest of the material? I think, the newer version has a more positive atmosphere (keyboards are more dominant, multiple-voice-singing, etc.) and the only negative point on this song (and on the whole album!) is the synth-solo of this song, because it´s not as mournful as the old one. And for "Sorrow Of The Angels" this solo REALLY is important, because it makes the listener depressed again considering the song was more "happy", than "La Mort D´Amour".

The main reason "Sorrow Of The Angels" was included is because it has been unavailable for many years (prior to and excluding the "Chapter One" anthology), and as I mentioned previously, I've always intended to re-record the older songs so that they would have the production that I envisioned, and also so that they remain in print. I think again, it rounds the album out nicely, almost a bookend to the opening of "The Drowning Years." I'm really surprised that you think it has a more positive atmosphere, as the intro and outro are significantly darker than before (sounding not unlike "Innocence And Wrath" from Celtic Frost's "To MegaTherion"), but perhaps the verse and bridge sections are a bit lusher than the original. Regarding the "controversial" synth-solo, there are a myriad of reasons for its presence: for one, I have a fetish for old analog synths, secondly, we required a sound with a lot of sustain - I suppose more orchestral instruments could have worked, but I wanted to have fresh elements throughout the whole album, and lastly I knew it would provoke a strong reaction - that alone was reason enough to include it. Even some of the bandmembers did not agree with its inclusion, but being that I am a huge fan of Kitaro, Klaus Schulze, and tons of mid-70's Krautrock bands, I made an executive decision to keep it.

24. The digipak version of your newest album is limited to 1000 copies. I read, that the unlimited version will contain fewer songs than the digipak version. What can you tell me about that?

Actually, the unlimited edition will contain the same number of songs, but with a different tracklisting, alternate artwork in a standard jewel case, and slightly improved mix. The Eibon pressing in the luxury digipak features "From Empires To Oceans" as an exclusive track that will not be included in the Rage Of Achilles version. Instead, we have re-recorded "In Aeternum" from the out-of-print "Lovesongs…" release, and I think older fans will be pretty surprised with the new developments in that song, although the R.O.A. pressing is primarily for people whose introduction to WHW will be "Of Empires Forlorn." Essentially, the Eibon pressing is for everyone already "in the know," whereas the R.O.A. release will be promoted heavily throughout the world. There really isn't any reason for people to buy two copies of the album, unless you are a completist/fanatic! It's not our intention to re-package anything "Peaceville" style; we're simply making the music more widely available than ever before.

25. Do you think, that you have written your "Dark Side Of The Moon album" with "Of Empires Forlorn," or do you think, that you can top this album?

I think that only time will tell how significant of an album "Empires" is, and it's not really for me to label "a classic" - that's really defined by the opinion of the media and the fans. What I can say is that I am more pleased with the realization of this release than anything else we've ever done in 14 years. I think it is safe to say that we won't be re-recording these songs (laughing)! As for topping "Empires," the way I see it, the only thing we can do is try NOT to replicate it in any fashion, but continue developing our signature sound into other areas. The truth is that we had completed most of the compositions for the "Vast Oceans Lachrymose" release before we even started recording "Empires," so I know the material is just as strong, if not stronger…but it is different in many ways, the least of which being a heavier emphasis on darker, Epic and aggressive passages. In part, "V.O.L." leans towards early Manowar, Bathory, and even recent Immortal more so than Candlemass or Solitude Aeturnus. Essentially, it is an even more diverse affair, with more atmospheres, another extremely lengthy track, and some of the fastest AND slowest material WHW has ever offered. So, rather than topping "Empires," we're moving on into these said different realms, without betraying our signature sound, which means we are staying true to ourselves, doing what we want and enjoy first and foremost. Furthermore, I've always said that I would not play doom for the sake of doom, and being that I've endured some frustrating experiences recently, it makes sense that the music reflects that aggravation.

26. With "From Empires To Oceans" you have included a classical instrumental on your album. Classical music on a Doom Metal-album. Do you think, that metal fans can grasp such music?

I give our audience plenty of credit as far as having the depth and diversity to appreciate many forms of expression. Obviously, classical music has been a foundation for our compositions since day one, so I don't think that anyone would be surprised by the inclusion of a traditional orchestral piece. It definitely serves several purposes on the album, providing both a suitably melancholic ending as well as a connection to earlier passages on "Empires." Although "Empires" is not a concept album proper, it is indeed a journey…and what I've discovered is that if you put the CD on repeat, so that "From Empires To Oceans" leads right back into "The Drowning Years," the is an amazing continuity, almost making it an endless voyage. Additionally, there is a bit of a hint of things to come, so those lucky enough to acquire the Eibon pressing have some insight that nobody else will possess.

27. What can you tell me about your next album?

Well, as I said, "Vast Oceans Lachrymose" will be an even more diverse release, containing everything from aggressive thrash to funeral doom, all tied together by Epic themes and dense orchestrations. You can expect a production as full and complicated as "Empires," with a wide array of nuances. In no way could this album be considered a pure doom release, being both increasingly aggressive and progressive. I think it is a logical step for us since "Empires" opened quite a few new doors, and the last thing I'd ever want to be is redundant musically. There is no reason for anyone to be alarmed by this; it is still clearly the music of While Heaven Wept - dark, epic, emotionally intense progressive metal, but if anyone insists on a total Doom release, they'd be better off opting for "Sorrow Of The Angels." I'm not saying that we are abandoning the genre of Doom, but that is not necessarily where I am mentally and emotionally right now. I think the music of WHW should always be Epic and honest, but that does not mean we should only play 35 beats-per-minute. There are plenty of distressing aspects in my life, so I can almost guarantee there will be more depressive funereal doom coming in the future, but right now vengeance reigns supreme.

28. I've read that you plan to re-release "Sorrow of the Angels." What can you tell me about this re-release? What bonus-cuts will be included? I think that this is very important, because the re-release shall be interesting for your older fans.

The "Sorrow Of The Angels: Definitive Edition" will be the next CD released by While Heaven Wept. The original 1998 pressing is completely out-of-print and I was never satisfied with its production or execution (aside from most of Mauro's stellar artwork) to begin with. This is the final re-recording project for WHW, and it will contain the entire original "Sorrow Of The Angels" album, plus other songs that were written or even recorded at that time, but never before released. At the time of this interview the tracklist will include: "Thus With A Kiss I Die," "Into The Wells Of Sorrow," The Death Of Love," "September," "To Grieve Forever," "Unplenitude II" (a classical variation on the song from "Chapter One"), and "The Mourning Eterne." Because so many people feel so strongly about the original version of "Thus With A Kiss I Die," I will be including it on one version of the CD, re-mixed, and re-mastered. Having said all of this, the "Sorrow Of The Angels: Definitive Edition" is not merely a re-recording, but an evolution - much like the new versions of "Sorrow Of The Angels" and "In Aeturnum," the songs this release contains will be further developed and will feature a vastly improved production. While I do hope the older fans will appreciate the additional tracks, and improved production, the primary reasoning behind this new version of the album is to make it available to new fans and keep the material in print. We may in fact develop some other way for the old fans that are satisfied with the original album to obtain the bonus material as well.

29. You actually have re-joined the U.K.´s SOLSTICE. What do you have to say about this "reunion," and what do you think about the new line-up, which, for me, looks like a project, because of so many famous band members. Your opinion?

I am very happy to be involved with Solstice again, and I am looking forward to working with all of these stellar musicians on Rich's new material. Just as WHW is something of an underground "supergroup" with various reasonably well-known personalities, Solstice has become something quite similar. Comprised of members of WHW, Twisted Tower Dire, and The Lord Weird Slough Feg, how could this be anything less than incredible? As to whether or not it will be a fully functional entity, time will tell. The only concrete plan at this point in time is to rehearse and record "To Sol A Thane," which may only be released as a vinyl pressing in the vein of Vitus' "The Walking Dead" or Dawn Of Winter's "Slow Is The Suffering."

30. What can you tell me about your time in SOLSTICE?

The time I spent with Solstice previously was definitely a learning experience for me, and I really enjoyed my time in Yorkshire with my brethren. On the downside, we were not nearly as productive as we could have been, with line-up changes, record label problems, and lack of motivation, which I always felt was unfortunate. Personally, I was not as comfortable with the music of Solstice as I was with WHW at that time, and I really had not even found my true singing voice prior to "Sorrow Of The Angels," so there were a lot of psychological issues for me, being 3000 miles removed from almost everything I knew, and being unsure of my abilities. 5-6 years later, we've all grown quite a bit, and I feel like I do have something to offer within the context of Rich's music now. I'm very glad that we have an opportunity to live up to our full potential finally. I'll never forget the great times we had in Yorkshire, and I'm looking forward to making some memories again. For Ale! For Albion! For Metal!

31. What is your Top 10 if we speak about Doom metal?

Candlemass - "Epicus, Doomicus, Metallicus" and "Nightfall"
Trouble - "The Skull"
St. Vitus - "The Walking Dead"
Black Sabbath - "Master Of Reality" and "Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath"
Pentagram - "Relentless"
Witchfinder General - "Death Penalty" and the "Burning A Sinner" single
Pagan Altar - "Volume 1"
Solitude Aeternus - "Into The Depths Of Sorrow"
Revelation -"Never Comes Silence" and "Yet So Far"
Solstice - "Lamentations"

32. What are your future-plans and are there any plans for a tour (some gigs in Germany?)?

We'll be spending the rest of 2003 rehearsing the material for all of the upcoming releases, doing a few select shows in support of the "Empires" album, and releasing more vinyl including a split with The Doomsday Cult, another single from the album, and the album itself. We are planning to tour Europe in 2004, and I assure you that Germany is highest on the list of places we'll be performing. I don't really have any more details at this time, but there should be some information available sometime this summer. But you can expect us sometime around April roughly. As for the upcoming releases, I'd imagine that the "Sorrow Of The Angels: Definitive Edition" will be coming in late 2004, with "Vast Oceans Lachrymose" following it shortly thereafter. We'll be demoing some of the "V.O.L." material this year, so you won't have to wait too long to hear something brand new from us.

33. Where do you see WHILE HEAVEN WEPT in 10 years and what will have changed in the Doom Metal-genre as a whole?

I'd like to think that WHW will still be performing and releasing music as honest and vital as we are now, without ever betraying our roots like so many bands seem to do. I do have some ideas for releases after "V.O.L.," but it is a bit premature to discuss them at this time. But, if I ever feel as though we've run our course, said all that there is to say, or are in danger of becoming redundant, WHW will come to an end. I hate when bands I once adored become parodies of themselves or outstay their welcome. As for the Doom scene, I think we are entering a second "golden age" right now, with strong releases from The Reverend Bizarre, Thunderstorm, and Mirror Of Deception, the return of Solstice, Forlorn (now called Isole), and Revelation, and newcomers like Orodruin, Doomshine, The Doomsday Cult, and Well Of Souls to name a few. Unfortunately, I see the scene as a whole becoming more acrimonious and fractured, between the True Doom bands and the contemporary Death/Doom scene anyway - this may bring the old-school bands closer together, but will only serve to further isolate us in the end. But, I suppose that is the intent behind the recent warring. If nothing else, at least it appears that there are more and more Doom releases getting a lot more media attention and label support, so anything seems to be possible at this time. At least my stereo won't be short of killer new releases!

34. Before we end, are there any funny stories about WHILE HEAVEN WEPT and, if so, would you please tell me some?

Well I imagine that most of them would involve heavy drinking, and as I'm sure you're aware, if you have a really good time on a night out, you would not remember it anyway! Unfortunately, there will always be those with cameras, so here's one for you…after the Born Too Late festival in Rochester, NY this past April, we had Penance, Soulpreacher, Revelation, Orodruin, and Pale Divine back at our hotel room with beer and smoke aplenty. Needless to say, at one point I was talking to Greg of Pale Divine and Butch from Penance when I was apparently fading out deemed "the leaning tower of Doom"…and proceeded to pass out standing up! And there are pictures to prove it…but hey, at least I did not spill my beer or drop my tabs. And here's one for the true metalheads out there…at the first Stoner Hands Of Doom festival, we essentially got fucked over by the stage manager who ended up wasted, allowing Spirit Caravan to play an ungodly long set… pushing our set further and further back… needless to say, by the time we made it onstage (after enduring a near-fatal amount of shitty Fu Manchu and Kyuss emulators) I was fucking livid, having been asked to cut our set short, even after doing an extensive amount of local promotion personally. Furious, once behind the microphone, I made the announcement: "If you are here for some hippie bullshit, you'd might as well fuck off now" - and, of course, the majority of the crowd did. As you can imagine, our disdain for stoner rock has not diminished at all since then.

35. Famous last words?

Steffan, thank you for the extremely thought provoking and lengthy interview, and hail to Blooddawn in general! To all our German fans - thank you for the years of unwavering support, we hope to see you very soon at long last. For more information on While Heaven Wept, please visit our websites: www.whileheavenwept.net, and www.mp3.com/whw (for some free Mp3's). You can also write to us directly via plomerus@hotmail.com or via snail mail at: While Heaven Wept, attn: Tom Phillips, 4809 Lockwood Lane, Dale City, VA. 22193, USA.

Doom onward!