Interview with Curse of the Chains Zine, Autumn 1995

Can you first tell us of whom the current line-up consists of and what has been released?

Tom: The current line-up, which will be featured on the forthcoming "Sorrow Of The Angels" album, consists of: myself - guitars/baritone voice/keyboards, Jon Paquin - drums/percussion, Kevin Hufnagel - guitars, and Dan Ingerson - bass/viola. The latter two members also have an incredible avant-garde project called Grey Division Blue. Our discography at the time of this interview consists of the "Into The Wells Of Sorrow" 7", and the "Lovesongs Of The Forsaken" demo/MCD, as well as several compilation appearances, including the excellent "Nightshade" comp.

WHW has had over thirty line-up changes!!! Why so many? Do you think that this line-up will remain intact?

Tom: It has taken many years to develop a strong, working line-up because of the musical and/or personal differences between past members and myself. Many of the former members simply lost interest in metal and focused on Jazz or Classical instead. Others gave up music completely and opted for family life or other careers. Ultimately, people evolve. I began this project when I was 15, so you can imagine the amount of growth since then. This evolution has often lead others into other realms, while I've continued to develop WHW in the direction I originally set out upon. As for the permanence of the current line-up, I have no idea. Everyone has their own projects, which take precedence for them. This line-up is together merely because we enjoy each other's music. I'd like to see this line-up last, but that may be too much to ask of the current members, so as long as we complete the album, that's fine with me. As long as I feel the need to express myself in this vein, there will be a While Heaven Wept. When there is nothing left to say, WHW will be deceased.

So, in 1993 Parasitic Infestation, your previous band, split up and you re-focused all of your attention on WHW…how quickly did the band's material come together at this time? Did you have a lot of the concepts/ideas in mind previously that you had not had a chance to develop until this time?

Tom: The songs came together fairly quickly, as most of the WHW material was already written when I joined Parasitic in 1992. I had several old rehearsal tapes from previous line-ups, so we had many aids in cultivating the material. Although almost 99% of this material was complete before that incarnation formed, Jon and Gabe were integral to the realization of many songs. With every line-up change the level of musicianship increased, and the songs evolved a lot. Jon's incredible talent for manipulating rhythms and Gabe's thunderous bass playing really took the songs to previously unforeseen levels.

The first exposure of WHW to the underground was your track "The Mourning" on the "Scenecubator" compilation tape. Was this tape well circulated? Did you have a good response from it?

Tom: "Scenecubator" was put out by Shane Privette (vocalist from Parasitic), on his own label, Open Eye Records. This compilation focused on Virginia's heavy music scene, so it went over well here, but never really sold much elsewhere. I am sure this is mostly due to the lack of promotion; no flyers were ever circulated. The response to "The Mourning" was really positive overall; many people thought it was the best track on there! I can't say that I agree, but it was the only melodic/doom metal track on there, so it stood out quite a bit. Many of the Hardcore fans hated WHW because we were melodic metal, but that's just their opinion, I guess. I actually liked most of the other bands' tracks, but some of them "couldn't like WHW 'cause it's not Hardcore, man." Nevertheless, the "Scenecubator" compilation was really good for what it was: a representation of the Virginian underground.

You mentioned that you spent most of 1994 recording and re-recording material that would eventually end up on your 7". What were some of the reasons causing the slow recording process?

Tom: It's mostly my fault for the slow recording process, as I have a need for perfection, and went maniacal over nuances. I really struggled with the vocal tracks, trying to capture both proper technique and emotion, but ultimately settled for emotional clarity. We also had many problems recording the bass, which is a really difficult instrument to record. We wanted a bass sound like Eddie Jackson's from Queensryche, with more bottom, but we could not achieve it. Finally, we reduced it to a rumble, which actually sounds alright for the mix. In summary, I think our ideals were too high, as if we expected a lot more than we achieved. In fact, we eventually just compromised to get the material out, even though we weren't completely satisfied. Otherwise, it may have never come out!

You utilized the "Death" vocal style back then. When did you first decide to change to clean vocals and what were the reasons for the conversion?

Tom: Actually, I stopped using the "Death" vocal style back in 1992 to be exact, but I was working on the vocal tracks for a couple songs and they just did not come out right. I was frustrated…filled with rage about this, and how long the recording process had dragged on in general, so I just ventilated through over the music. I went into convulsions doing those tracks, but it was a well-needed catharsis! When we formed as Dream Wytch back in 1989, the vocals were more melodic even though we were into Celtic Frost, Voivod, Sacrifice, Slayer, and Death. I guess the Fates Warning influence was too great! Anyway, when out original vocalist Brendan Galvan left in late 1990, I was going through a lot of problems personally, and overflowing with hate at that time, so when I took over the vocal chores, I did them in the death fashion. In early 1992 I realized that the underlying emotion of our songs was being obscured by the guttural delivery, so I returned to the melodic vocal style that we began with. Fates Warning and Candlemass were always our main influences, so it was a return to our roots, in essence.

Your "Lovesongs Of The Forsaken" MCD is now released…you had first produced this as a limited-edition promo cassette? What did you add/change for the CD release?

Tom: Yes, "Lovesongs…" was originally released as a promo cassette, with a pressing of only fifty copies. These promos were mainly for friends and some press, not really the general public. Even when the promos came out in October 1994, we knew that we'd re-mix it for release on CD. That's really the main difference between the promo and MCD: production. There are a few parts left off out on the CD version, like the bass during the bridge of "In Aeturnum," but ultimately, the products are quite similar. Originally, I was going to re-record the vocals but since my voice had changed so much, I would've had to redo all of the songs, so I just decided to release the MCD as is.

Are you happy with the finished product? How many have been pressed? What distros will be carrying it, etc.?

Tom: Well, I don't really listen to it, but it's alright. You see, I never really liked the vocals, but the overall final outcome is pretty good. Actually, until a couple of days ago, I liked it a lot in general, but now I would prefer a brighter, fuller production. But it is what it is, and we'll go way beyond it with the new album, so I am not too displeased. The best thing about it is it's fucking heavy!

Jon: We thought it was good for the time, and the budget at our disposal, but we've learned a lot since then and intend to surpass it by far.

Tom: There will only be 1,000 pressed and then it will cease to exist, so we cannot complain too much. As far as I know, it will be distributed by Napalm, Drowned, Morbid, Cacophonous, Relapse, and Nuclear Blast - but I'm not really handling that aspect; the rest of Sinistrari is overseeing the distribution deals. I'll only be dealing with a few doom-oriented labels.

WHW seems to incorporate not only elements of Doom, but also Progressive Metal and maybe some older Thrash elements as well?

WHW definitely incorporates elements of Doom, Progressive Metal, and Thrash, as well as Classical, New Age, and Gothic. I am drawing parallels between all of the aforementioned genres, and all of these traits will become more evident (and integral) as WHW progresses. Initially, our influences were: Fates Warning, Candlemass, Black Sabbath, Queensryche, Kitaro, Trouble, Slayer, Celtic Frost, Voivod, Coroner, Yngwie, Rush, Iron Maiden…the list is endless! But, as you can see, the influences have always been diverse and only grown more so with time.

What have you been listening to lately? You all seem to have diverse musical tastes.

Tom: Like I said, we all have very broad spectrums in terms of musical taste. I'm confident that everyone in this line-up appreciates Jazz, Classical, New Age, Rock, and Metal equally. We avidly enjoy music, without prejudice…well, at least in the aforementioned categories (no Rap, no Country, no Gospel, no Glam)! Currently, I'm listening all sorts of stuff: Solstice - "Lamentations," and "Halcyon," Mourn - "Mourn," The Gathering - "Mandylion" (advance), Anathema - "Pentecost III," The Third & The Mortal - "Nightswan," the "Nightshade" compilation, Kari - "Demo Recordings CD '95," Bal-Sagoth - "A Black Moon Broods Over Lemuria," Dissection - advance tracks '95, Grey Division Blue - "Departure," Forlorn - "Waves Of Sorrow" demo 1994, Arcturus - "Constellation," Immortal - "Pure Holocaust" and "Battles In The North," Emperor - "In The Nightside Eclipse," Chopin - "Nocturnes + Piano Concerto No.1," Arvo Part - "Fratres," various Requiems and elegies, plus all of the aforementioned influences' discographies. How about you Jon?

Jon: I've been listening to the likes of Autopsia, Curve, Strange Boutique, Paradise Lost, Die Form, Laibach, This Mortal Coil, Bjork, My Dying Bride, etc.

The Doom scene appears to be fairly secluded from other areas of underground metal. Would you agree? If so, what do you think the reasons are for this?

Tom: It's true that Doom is rather isolated in the underground, but you're far more likely to see crossover fans today with bands like Anathema, Celestial Season, Phlebotomized, and My Dying Bride gaining popularity. Truthfully, I'd have to say that Doom is generally ignored by Black/Death Metal fans because of the Christian connotations it brings, thanks to Saint Vitus, Trouble, and the bands on the Hellhound label. It's true that most Doom bands are Christian in nature, but there are those that are pagan/anti-christian in ideology like While Heaven Wept and Solstice. Granted, there are also those Doom bands (and fans) that will tolerate only pure Doom (no Death vocals), but not everyone is so obstinate; John Perez (Solitude Aeturnus), Rich Walker (Solstice), and myself are all fans of Black Metal even. For us, it's all about metal! I don't think you'll ever see a bug marriage of all the underground genres, and that's fine with me. For those that can appreciate all styles, it will never matter anyway. Besides, the Black Metal scene is stronger than ever, and there are an ever-increasing number of Doom Metal bands as well. Each scene is self-sustaining for the most part.

All of the members of WHW possess great musical talent. What type of instrumental instruction have each of you had? You also take vocal lessons?

Tom: I have to say that everyone who's ever been in this band has been an exceptional musician, but the current line-up includes three of the greatest musicians I've ever known. It has a lot to do with our influences, besides the schooling; you see, bands like Rush, Fates Warning, Mahavishnu Orchestra, and Return To Forever were never comprised of the musically incompetent! These bands (and many others) inspired us to learn our instruments, and to become musicians, rather than pretenders. Anyway, I'll let everyone tell their own story individually…

Kevin: I've played guitar for 5 ½ years and have taken lesson for most of this time. I've been studying Classical guitar, and now Jazz as well. At first, I learned the fundamentals such as reading music and proper time technique. I've learned the most from playing with other musicians, often more advanced than myself. Now, I attend Philadelphia's University of the Arts, where I study Jazz guitar.

Dan: I have studied viola for 9 years, double bass/6-string electric bass for 4 years, piano/keyboards for 7 years, contra-bass clarinet for 4 months, and play several other instruments. I am so tired...I can never stop!

Tom: I've been playing guitar for nearly 14 years, and have taken over 7 years of instruction in various styles including: Jazz, Folk, Blues, and Metal, but focused on Classical in particular. Much of my playing has been self-nurtured by Fates Warning and Yngwie records. I've spent years learning from records, videos, and books without becoming too mechanical. It's important to maintain a balance between technicality and emotion. I'm currently studying music at a local community college right now. Most of my focus is on classical composition and vocal performance, but I also study musicology. I take several music theory classes in addition to vocal lessons. I also participate in the college's choir to continue developing my voice.

Jon: I've been playing drums for 6 years now, and have had no formal instructions. I used to practice by playing Death Metal styles, influenced by Slayer and Grave, but now I focus on emulating Jazz techniques. Jazz/Fusion played like Dave Weckl, Chad Wackerman, Jack Dejohnette, and even The Rippingtons are where I find new inspiration and techniques for my development.

You are involved in a number of different projects including Grand Belial's Key and Grey Division Blue. Can you tell us about your involvement with each, and any others you might be working with?

Tom: With Grand Belial's Key, I've been playing keyboards for a year or so, mostly to help them out live. Although I can't say that their songs are totally fulfilling, they do contain some of the best riffs ever written. I first joined as a guitarist back in 1993 when Gelal left for a while. It didn't really work out then, so I too left shortly afterward. In 1994, Vlad presented the new material to me, and I was impressed by some of the things they were doing like "Erubus" and "In Rapture By The Fenrir Moon." They needed a keyboard player for upcoming live shows, so I agreed to help out, since they're all friends of mine. Though it's unclear as to what is happening in the future, if I record the album with them, then I will play bass, as Demonic is now playing guitar with Gelal as well.

As for Grey Division Blue, I've been acquainted with Kevin since his old band The Fifth Season was formed. WHW and The Fifth Season were interrelated in that we exchanged members over the years, and were the only two bands around here that were heavily influenced by Fates Warning. In late 1994, Kevin played GDB's "Departure" demo for me, and I was immediately impressed with the musicianship and songwriting. The material was so breathtaking that I began promoting it immediately. This summer, they had a gig set up that was in the works for a long time, and they needed someone to cover the extra instrumentation, so I offered my services. The material was so complex, often I had to change instruments several times in a single composition. With GDB, I played guitar, keyboards, and handled some of the vocals as well.

Recently, I joined the UK's only Epic Doom band, Solstice, as the new vocalist. Subsequently, I'll be moving to England and with record the new album with them. The "New Dark Age" will be a monumental album for the Epic Doom Metal Crusade! Since Solstice will be my main priority right now, my involvement with any other projects is questionable. I will continue to write new material for the next WHW release, but it will be a long time before you see another album (following "Sorrow…"), as I will be in the fair lands of Albion. However, if time permits, I may provide vocals for the forthcoming demos for both Uller and Twisted Tower Dire, two bands your readers should be watching for.

You will be entering the studio with Grand Belial's Key as well? Their new album will be on Cacophonous Records?

Tom: I really can't say whether or not I'll be going in the studio with GBK. I really want to because the new material is among the best they've written, but it depends on how soon they enter the studio, as I will be leaving the country shortly. As far as I know the new album will be on Cacophonous, as that's who we've been negotiating with, but the contracts haven't been finalized, so anything can happen.

Didn't Grey Division Blue perform live recently? Will any of these other bands be playing live?

Tom: Yes, Grey Division Blue just performed on the shore of a lake recently. We arranged the setlist from the lightest music to the darkest, and this corresponded perfectly with the onset of the night, since we began at dusk. The show was quite magical, as we conjured forth thunderheads storming with lightning, which gradually crept towards us, spiraling right above us by the end of the set. The atmosphere was perfect for the music. Unfortunately, aside from a few Goths, most of the audience was oblivious or too mesmerized to comprehend Kevin and Dan's eccentric music. As for the other bands, I can only speak for Solstice, although I am confident that Grand Belial's Key will be performing in the future. Solstice will do a full European tour next year, hopefully rivaling last year's tour with Anathema, which took them from England to the former Soviet Union.

Keeping on the subject of live shows, how often does WHW perform live?

Tom: Never. For a while, we've lived in separate states, so we cannot play regularly, and truthfully, I have no interest in performing live with WHW, as the music is so personal. I would not mind doing a couple shows with Solitude Aeturnus, Revelation, Mourn, or even Grey Division Blue or In Search Of Obsession, but the truth is I would rather perform live with Solstice or even Parasitic Infestation because the energy level is higher. Plus, that music is not as funereal. Perhaps we will play live in the future, but I won't do more than a couple shows in the US, as European crowds are much more open-minded and attentive.

Besides all of the other bands previously mentioned, you are also working on a side project? In what realm of music will that be?

Tom: I've got so much material that doesn't work with WHW musically, that I could have several projects! More than likely, my first side project would be more oriented towards contemporary progressive rock like Rush, Fates Warning, and Cynic, but I have material that ranges from early Journey to Neptune Towers stylistically! Most of this material will never get beyond demo stage unless it somehow becomes incorporated into While Heaven Wept. I just like to explore the other facets of my personality, so that is why I have other projects on the side.

Let's focus on the label you're involved with for a moment - Sinistrari Records. You formed this label with members of Grand Belial's Key? What are some of the releases planned?

Tom: Sinistrari was formed by Gelal, Demonic, and myself (all members of GBK), for the purpose of releasing our own projects. The only concrete releases planned at this time are the WHW MCD (now available), the Arghoslent album, and the WHW album. We may also release 7"s from both bands as well. Prospective releases include: a Grey Division Blue album, the In Search Of Obsession album (+vinyl), though none of these have been confirmed. Another band we are interested in is Twisted Tower Dire, whose Mercyful Fate-like direction is breath of fresh air around here. Top-notch songwriting. We'll see what happens in the next few months, as we sort out the details for our second release.

Do you think you will continue to release WHW material yourself or will you sign to another label if they offered you a good contract?

Tom: I'm confident that we'll continue to produce WHW products ourselves, as I want to retain all of my rights and ownership of the recordings. I want to be able to do whatever I wish with the material, without dealing with the red tape involved with labels and contracts. Plus, look at how my friends in Solitude Aeturnus have been screwed by every label they've been on! It's unfair, and the business kills bands! Fortunately, my Doom-brother John Perez does this because he loves the music, otherwise, Solitude would probably be long gone. Anyway, they are one only one of thousands who have been fucked by the industry, and I refuse to be another. At the moment, we'll license our albums to the right labels, but that's as far as we'll go with other companies.

It must be a lot of extra work handling the label business along with band duties, but I assume it does also have its advantages?

Tom: Extra work and extra bills! I'm more or less broke, but I have invested in what I love…the music. That's what it's all about. Plus, I'm drowning in mail, but I suppose that's part of the job. I really don't mind the extra work, but sometimes I just collapse in exhaustion. I think the greatest advantage is being in control of the creative process, and knowing everything that can possibly be done to promote a product is being done.

The next release for WHW will be the "Sorrow Of The Angels" album?

Tom: Yes…we have already started recording the "Sorrow…" album, but it won't be complete until 1996. This release will feature material spanning our entire existence, including the definitive versions of older songs, as well as new unreleased songs. The album will end book one of the band's history. It will be the end of an era for While Heaven Wept. The future beyond it is uncertain, but I can say that there will be more material released somewhere down the line.

Well Tom, thank you for taking the time for this interview. Is there any available band merchandise or anything else you'd like to say in closing?

Tom: Thanks Scott, for the opportunity to express ourselves…continue the great work. Also, thanks to everyone who has supported us thus far, especially the Doom brethren worldwide!

Doom Onward…