Interview for MAELSTROM Magazine

1- I read that the history of While Heaven Wept is a long and complicated one, spanning more than a decade of hard work and honest dedication. Could you give our readers a short overview?

WHW began in 1989 following the demise of the band Polaris, initially under the name Dream Wytch. The idea was to explore more diverse areas musically than Polaris had (that band was essentially straightforward power metal like Maiden, Priest, or Metal Church). We wanted to create a fusion of progressive metal (which at the time meant Fates Warning and Queensryche two of our biggest influences), doom (Candlemass being the main influence there), thrash (Coroner, Slayer, Sacrifice), avant garde metal (like Celtic Frost and Voivod), space/new age (Kitaro) and even classical music. These concepts and influences remain intact to this day. Between the end of 1990 and early 1991, I was left as the sole founding member remaining as the others moved on to other styles of music, left for college, etc. Around this time I endured some very hard times with the demise of a particular relationship, the passing of loved ones, turmoil within the family, thus the music became much darker and introspective - personal need for catharsis became the focus of the band rather than any other musical motives. It was at this time the moniker While Heaven Wept was insurrected, although we continued performing even the earliest material that we'd written. Line-up changes have been almost constant since the beginning, a trend that continues on to this day. Needless to say in 1993 the line-up stabilized long enough with Jon Paquin (drums) and Gabe Funston (bass) to record a MCD "Lovesongs Of The Forsaken" and a couple 7"s, which were released between 1994 and 1997. Jon and I had already been working with Danny Ingerson on bass by 1996 (currently of Dysrhythmia fame - Kevin Hufnagel was also a member around this time), and this new trio recorded the "Sorrow Of The Angels" album, which was released in 1998 via Italy's Eibon Records. Being that Danny had relocated to Philadelphia, I asked Jim Hunter to join the band (at this time Revelation had come to an end, thankfully they have been resurrected since!) in time to do the shows in support of the album. The line-up expanded to a quintet for the 1999 performances with the addition of Scott Loose (guitar) and his sister Michelle (keyboards). We took a break while Scott, Michelle, and I worked on our other band Brave (much like in 1995 when I joined Solstice and helped to found Twisted Tower Dire). By 2001 the original line-up of Brave was fracturing apart, and because of another series of personal problems the need for WHW arose once again. The 1999 line-up started working on new material almost immediately, but it became clear that Jon Paquin simply wasn't in the right headspace to continue on with us, so we went through a series of drummers before Jason Gray (ex-Forty Days Longing) filled the position permanently. This line-up spent most of 2002 recording the "Of Empires Forlorn" album, with keyboardist Jake Bodnar filling in for Michelle for a while (Brave was busy recording their debut full-length, and some personal matters hadn't yet been resolved between myself and that band), though she ended up finishing the album with us. "Empires" was originally released on Eibon Records on Valentine's Day 2003 as a limited edition and then licensed to Rage Of Achilles, who released it in an unlimited capacity in October 2003. Currently, we are preparing for a European tour in support of the album and writing/rehearsing for some upcoming recordings.

2- I find your music brutally honest and devastating, as beautiful and emotive as it is sad. The sheer passion and sincerity that you put on the songs is almost overwhelming. I simply adored both "Sorrow Of The Angels" and the new album. Is your music a cathartic form of expression for you? Are all the lyrics and concepts based on personal experiences?

WHW is completely based on my personal experiences indeed, and therefore is very much a catharsis. There is nothing contrived about the music or lyrics whatsoever, at least in terms of the heart and skeleton of the songs - the orchestration and arranging is very much a thoughtful process, but everything is born strictly through revelations resulting from emotional catalysts.

3- "Of Empires Forlorn" is a beautiful title, like everything else in your band (both aurally and visually... cover artworks -I guess you must be a big Doré fan- are always a highlight in your discography). Is the title a metaphor for that which was lost? In that case, do you think it's gone forever?

"Of Empires Forlorn" is best summed up by the imagery on the cover - a vast landscape of ruin, filled with carnage, fire, and agony. It is indeed a metaphor for that which I've lost - both what has been taken from me and that which I've destroyed. Obviously since I'm here to do this interview, I've come to terms with all of this, so even if some things are gone forever, or changed forever, I've managed to accept it. Doing the album certainly helped me to achieve that acceptance.

4- Nevertheless, I can feel a sense of accomplishment and triumph in the new songs. They are still as depressive and bleak as ever, but perhaps there is indeed a light at the end of the tunnel after all... Where you able to defeat your personal demons? Do you think darkness and hope are intertwined in your music?

This aural paradox of triumph and despair is most likely the result of enduring my hell and having lived through it. I wouldn't go so far as to say there is anything hopeful in the music, as generally it refers to past experiences (however recent), thus there is no hope in changing anything. Things are the way there are and will be as far as the relationships and circumstances discussed in the lyrics are concerned. That is not to say that there aren't reflections of brighter times within the music, there certainly are, and they serve to accentuate the darkness that usurped them. Our music, like life is all about equilibrium. There can be no good without evil, no heaven without hell, no white without black...the opposing forces define each other. I don't think I realized this on the releases prior to "Empires," as they are very bleak and hopeless. Most likely this is because I was still grieving and couldn't see any light whatsoever. Years later, I've come to realize that nothing is permanent and that even in the darkest times there is still hope, however faint or vain. Likewise, there will always be scars and voids that won't ever disappear, but that doesn't mean I can't enjoy the better times or that I'm always a miserable bastard.  

5- This is what fascinates me about the music of band like you or, just to give an example, My Dying Bride. The use of potent contrasts like darkness and light, hope and misery, pain and lust... Why do you think such depressive music can sometimes create the opposite effect on the listener? Your music, for instance, is extremely uplifting for me. It simply gives me strength and courage... Does this happen to you, too, with other bands?

I think the uplifting aspects of our music are the result of a couple different things: the use of major key passages, which as I said provide contrast to the sad minor keys which dominate the music, the overall epic feel and rhythmic drive, and the soaring vocal melodies. I think the effect of music on someone has to do with how they are listening to it - taken strictly on a musical level you could focus on the relationships of intervals, the conversations between the instruments, the ebb and flow of the melodies for example. I think you'd experience something quite different if you were immersed in the imagery of the lyrics. Perhaps some people even experience a catharsis of their own through the music. I can't really say that there are any bands whose music makes me feel the opposite of what they intended. For example listening to Slayer makes me feel very aggressive, Kitaro peaceful, Gorecki's Symphony No. 3 sad...the closest anything comes to what you're talking about for me are the bands that evoke a myriad of feelings like Arcturus or the Devin Townsend Band.

6- Could you tell me more specific details about the lyrics? Or are they too personal for you to share?

Speaking strictly of "Empires," the lyrics refer to several relationships (romantic, platonic, and familial) that came to an end or are forever altered. There is a lot about pain, betrayal, and abandonment in there. There are also references to the hell and despair of addiction. All of the songs are written directly towards specific people. Beyond all of this there are questions of faith as well. I generally won't ever get more specific than this because there are many dualities, sometimes even three or more meanings to the lyrics, and I prefer to leave them open to interpretation for anyone apart from the subjects themselves. What else I can say is that all of these songs refer to events, circumstances, and relationships since the demise of the one 14 years ago that I wrote about on our earlier releases.

7- "Voice In The Wind" (one of the album's highlights, for me, along with "The Drowning Years") and "Epistle No. 81" are not original compositions by you. Who composed each one of them originally? Why did you decide to record them and incorporate your own arrangements?

"Voice In The Wind" is a song that was written by Klaus Hess and recorded by his band Jane in 1977, on their "Between Heaven And Hell" album. Jane was a pretty big symphonic/progressive rock band in the mid-to-late 70's in Germany, but was relatively obscure everywhere else (except for prog freaks like myself). A former colleague of mind from the days of music retail once said WHW sounded like Jane and Novalis, so that's when the seed was planted. The first time I heard "Voice In The Wind" I was very moved by its stark structure and poignancy. Years later it dawned on me that we were in fact very similar in sound, and that it would be very natural for us to do a cover of "Voice" or "Age Of Madness," the only difference being the overall heaviness of the guitars. That was the approach initially anyways, but as things progressed, I started hearing other melodies and ideas that were very much WHW, so it evolved into more of an interpretation rather than an exact cover. I ended up changing the rhythm slightly, added a bassline, altered the keyboard progression, and wrote new lyrics, melodies, and solos. It was my intention to preserve the starkness of the original song, while creating something that was distinctly WHW. For me it's a tribute to one of my favorite bands, and I was able to inject my own emotions into it by relating the new lyrics to the demise of yet another relationship. It was somewhat "my baby" on this album, and it's become very much a WHW song as much as it is Jane's. "Epistle No. 81" on the other hand is a pretty faithful rendition of Leif Edling's arrangement of the Carl Michael Bellman composition, with only a couple WHW elements blended in. Bellman is Sweden's equivalent to Shakespeare, and very much a staple of Swedish culture. I've always found this particular piece to be very beautiful, and I've wanted to do it for a long time. Numerous artists (almost all of Swedish decent) have done interpretations of it. Essentially we wanted to do something in tribute to Candlemass, and I figured "Epistle" would be a far less obvious choice than say "Solitude."

8- "Of Empires Forlorn" was originally released by Italian label Eibon Records. I understand the new release by Rage Of Achilles offers a different version of the album (re-mastered sound, different track list, etc...). What exactly are the differences between both releases? Why are there songs from so many different periods (one of them even as old as 1991)?

The Eibon pressing featured an early mix of the album along with an exclusive bonus track "From Empires To Oceans," which is an orchestral piece, packaging in the usual Eibon style...amazing graphics, extensive booklet, extravagant digipak. Even before that limited edition had been released, we continued to further mix the album, finishing off other songs from the sessions, and developing the plan for the Rage Of Achilles version. The ROA pressing comes in the standard jewel box, with slightly scaled down artwork, and is unlimited. The biggest difference apart from having the final mix is the inclusion of the song "In Aeturnum," another epic, vocal piece that originally appeared on "Lovesongs Of The Forsaken." As for the track selection of the album, basically we decide what songs old and new create the best flow for the whole album and set no other boundaries. My goal is to eventually have definitive versions of all the songs of WHW recorded in one form or another.

9- Also, why do you usually re-record songs like, for example, "Sorrow Of The Angels"? Do you continually try to improve on them, like permanent obsessions that just can't go away from your soul?

Songs are like children; they continue to grow and change over the years, and I allow them to do so. That aside, the main reason we continue to re-record old songs is because the original versions are unavailable...totally out-of-print. In many instances I wasn't really pleased with the production or performance of the originals, so I elect to re-record them rather than simply making the older versions available again. Beyond that, unless we are able to accurately realize what I originally had heard in my head, I am unsatisfied with the results, and will stop at no length to rectify this. Once we re-record the out-of-print "Sorrow Of The Angels" album, there will be no further re-recordings.

10- Going back to the lyrics and the driving force behind the band, it is quite evident that personal loss plays a fundamental role in your music. I also "lost" somebody very dear to me and still to this day suffer and remember her (even after 7 years, in my case) with melancholy and anguish. That relationship was one of the main reasons I got into this kind of music in the first place... to find solace, I guess... Do you think there's a certain type of person who perhaps is more sensitive to this kind of things and that is why we all end up looking for the same things both in music and in life? Why are there so many bands whose driving force is somebody whose love for a woman was not reciprocal? Why do we not see the same example with women, for instance? It's always "them" who leave "us", if you know what I mean... Did you ever think about this? (I may be going too far here..., but anyway, if somebody can understand what I'm trying to say I guess it's you)...

Well first of all my condolences regarding your loss, you're not alone in the anguish of this. I think everyone in the world has a hard time coping with loss and their problems, but some people are just more emotional to begin with. I think those people are more apt to empathize with music of this ilk indeed, and those are the people that matter the most to me. When my music helps even one person to not feel as alone in the world, then all of my own suffering is worth it. Mind you, there are plenty of people that only listen to things because "they're heavy," and that's fine, but it means a lot more to me to make a real difference in someone's life. As for the number of bands drawing their inspiration from love and loss, well this is a timeless thing really; these are two of the most powerful feelings, so it's natural that you have a lot of passionate artists inspired by them. As for your other inference, if you listen to various songs from Sarah McLachlan, Tori Amos, Joan Baez, Natalie Merchant, even Brave, you'll find that men aren't the only ones pining about love unrequited!

11- Finally, how did you get in touch with the members of Arise From Thorns, and what can you tell me about your work with that band?

I've known the members of Arise From Thorns for years...from high school in fact. Scott was a member of WHW back around 1995 or so for a brief period of time, and was once a guitar student of mine. After he did a recording with a group called Fell On Within, they formed Arise From Thorns. Scott brought me their first CD and I was quite impressed, this led to my asking him to join us for the shows in support of "Sorrow Of The Angels," and his sister came along. Since we ended up rehearsing in the same place, I became very fond of their music, even agreed to help out in the studio while they were recording "Before An Audience Of Stars," the second album. I ended up playing guitar with them a bit, some keyboards, and even structured the arrangement of "Bluer Skies." After all of that, it seemed quite logical that I should join them onstage to play the extra guitar parts, thus I became a full-time member. We played numerous concerts in support of the album and then began work on new material. It was clear that this was a different entity with me being an active contributor to the songwriting...it became heavier and more overtly progressive. Thus the band Brave was born. I contributed two complete songs to the debut EP "Waist Deep In Dark Waters," and added quite a bit to the title track as well. We continued to perform shows in support of both releases, but when it came time to write the full-length, we were kind of without direction, and I was feeling very uninspired. Additionally, circumstances in my personal eventually distanced me from some of the band members on a personal level, and we ultimately parted ways in April 2001. Some of the songs I helped to write did appear on their "Searching For The Sun" album, but there is still a large amount of material left unrecorded. Fortunately, we've managed to put a lot of things behind us, and it looks like we'll even be doing a tour together soon, so it's likely that we will eventually record and release these other songs, be it under the Brave moniker or otherwise.