Interview with Metal Maniacs, October 2003
1. It has been such a long journey for the band up to this point - a lot has transpired over the years. What kind of things have help sculpt the band's sound/style over the years? What kind of direction or ideas were you trying to introduce on the new album
When we first started in 1989, after having played rather straightforward, semi-melodic power metal that bordered on thrash in another band, the concept musically with While Heaven Wept was to explore a wide array of styles ranging from thrash to doom to new age and classical music, so the foundations have always been broad in scope. This was evident on the 1994 debut "Lovesongs Of The Forsaken" MCD, which contained 3 songs, one being melodic progressive metal ala early Fates Warning, the second a stark, depressive acoustic piece, and the last bastard heavy epic doom metal with some very spacey atmospheres. Considering the disparate influences, it's never been easy to classify our music, but the most convenient has always been epic doom metal, primarily because of the ominous atmosphere and sweeping melodicism. Nevertheless, the one thing I was intent upon from the beginning was to expand upward, rather than outward; I'm not one to betray where I come from, like so many bands do, but at the same time, I'm not interested in redundancy either. I think by having a plethora of influences to begin with allows us plenty of room to experiment, emphasizing different ratios and such. Virtually everything I hear influences me in one capacity or another; if it's something inspiring then it becomes part of the formula whereas if it's something I loathe, I'll steer us as far in the opposite direction as possible. The large number of personnel passing through the band over the years certainly has affected our evolution too, with various individuals leaving their subtle signatures in the arrangements (considering members of Dysrhythmia, Brave, Twisted Tower Dire among others have all had stints this is no small detail.). As for this latest album, I think the goal was to present all that WHW is in a more condensed form as opposed to the lengthy compositions of the past, although that ideal was established after many of the songs had already taken shape; being that the music came before the lyrics this time, it was much easier to avoid senseless self-indulgence without compromising our sound. All of the elements of our previous recordings are still present. The things I feel are most important to our music are maintaining brutal honesty lyrically and otherwise, and the overall epic feel - anything else is secondary or incidental. No matter how intelligent the arrangements are the cores of the songs have to be from the heart period.
2. I noticed the tracklisting is different from the Eibon release and the Rage of Achilles. Why were certain songs changed around?
The Eibon version was an early prototype of the album, released in deluxe packaging primarily for our established fanbase as much as it was for our own reference as we continued to record and produce the songs. Since it was such a limited edition, we wanted to include something unique to that pressing, and the symphonic piece "From Empires To Oceans" lent itself to the style of many of the other Eibon releases (which are generally minimalistic, isolationist darkwave). The song we added to the final master for the Rage Of Achilles official release was actually intended to be right in the middle of the album since the pre-production stage, and basically this pressing is merely the realization of that. What is pretty interesting is how much the difference of one song affects the feel of the entire album; being that "Of Empires Forlorn" is a thematic album with continuous sound that was very intentionally and carefully constructed, the song-to-song flow is greatly impacted by the inclusion of an uptempo piece set right in the middle of two slower, anthemic compositions. To be honest, my personal opinion is that the album really should have both songs included in their respective locations, and the forthcoming vinyl pressing, as well as any other licensings will reflect that.
3. I wonder, with all of the work that you put into the music, how hard is it for you to come up with songs and lyrics. What kind of method do you use to develop lyrics for songs? Are a lot of them inspired by personal situations?
Both the lyrics and the music develop through revelation initially - absolutely nothing is contrived whatsoever. This means songs can develop in an instant or over the course of months or even years. Likewise, the lyrics may come out in a single statement or are scattered slabs of thought collected on bar napkins and packs of cigarettes! After the basic structures feel complete to me, I'll then develop the orchestrations and arrangements which is very much a thoughtful process. All of the music and lyrics of While Heaven Wept are based upon events, circumstances, and relationships in my life, so it is very real, and often painful, but at the same time extremely cathartic.
4. Tell me about the early influences of the band and how they helped shape the band. Can you still hear those influences? What was it about those bands that attracted you to their music?
The main influences upon the music of WHW in the beginning and today were the early albums from Fates Warning, Candlemass, Manowar, Black Sabbath, Witchfinder General, Trouble, Iron Maiden, Rush, and Queensryche, the Viking era of Bathory, the atmospheres of Pink Floyd, Kitaro, Klaus Schulze, and the orchestrations of Wagner, Bach, Beethoven, and Pärt. I can definitely still hear all of these influences in our music even though we've developed a signature sound, and I don't regret that at all; that music changed my life and means something to me, and it's what I like to hear on my stereo the most still to this day. I'd have to say I was attracted to those bands for their mystical sounds, that "larger than life" feel, the intelligence of the arrangements, and the powerful emotions they evoked.
5. Musically, where about on the ladder do you see WHW in terms of creativity and where you can take the music - halfway? Almost at the end?
I'd like to think we're just reaching that "golden age" considering the first decade was spent developing our own sound and establishing our overall identity, now we can really start exploring what WHW is. To me "Of Empires Forlorn" is really only scratching the surface, because we continue to develop as musicians and evolve as composers, and adhere to as few boundaries as possible. For the moment, I'd say we're at the end of the out-and-out doom era because that's just not how I feel anymore, and clearly "Empires" is demonstrative of this, given the "aural paradox" of the characteristic melancholia juxtaposed against glorious triumph. This means we are at the beginning once again in a way, and we'll continue to explore and record until I feel we're in danger of becoming redundant or self-parodying.
6. Do you enjoy studio work or not? A lot of bands hate being in the studio. Do you like to be spontaneous - and if so, does it work?
I love being in the studio, aside from the ever-inflating costs of recording! Through the process of tracking, only then do I, and the rest of the band for that matter, really start to hear what was going on in my head to begin with. I've always advocated spontaneity in the studio as well as in live situations - that's really when you feel the magic of it all. Generally we always enter the studio with a pretty strong idea of what an album should ultimately sound like, but there are always twists and turns and moments of burning inspiration that affect the course of things, and "Empires" is no exception. This is also why we often spend a lot more time in the studio crafting an album, because we heed the call of inspiration regardless of the financial or logistical consequences. That insures our enthusiasm for a project and hopefully the listeners will appreciate or empathize with that exciting vitality.
7. Tell me about the significance of the band's name and where it came from?
Shortly after the band started, and all of the other founding members moved on to other horizons, things took an extremely introspective turn and the band became a vehicle for my coping with events in my life. Essentially the basis for the early years was the demise of a particular relationship that changed my life forever. I really didn't know how to handle what I was feeling and I needed answers. I searched through religion, philosophy, drugs, psychology, you name it...and finally I found the answer was in front of me and within me the whole time: music. Needless to say, with a clear direction established, I needed a name that represented what it was all about, and it had been revealed through an ominous occurrence; I thought back to the day when everything changed...I received a letter from my beloved telling me she had "just given up" and that "she was not the only one in this world," when in fact, at the time I felt that she was all I had. Needless to say, I was completely gutted and overcome with emotion...right then, black clouds enveloped the sun and the sky burst seemingly empathetic to my grief. Hence the name While Heaven Wept.
8. Where do you think the band fits into the music scene or do you not care? What bands out there currently do you admire and follow? Why?
As I mentioned previously, we're most closely associated with bands from the very small epic doom metal scene like Candlemass, Solitude Aeternus, and my other band Solstice, but there is a larger circle comprised of true doom bands like Revelation, Thunderstorm, The Reverend Bizarre, Warning, and Orodruin, along with epic true metal bands like Paragon, Twisted Tower Dire, Battleroar, Wotan, Holy Martyr, Battle Ram (etc.) and that's where we fit into the grand scheme of things... side by side with our brothers. Mind you, we are probably the most progressive-minded of the whole conglomerate... but our hearts and foundations remain cemented in place alongside all of them. As for who I follow personally outside of the said circle, having heard it all before, I require unique and progressive music that moves me and makes me think, so naturally I gravitate towards the work of very distinctive artists such as Arcturus, Ulver, Devin Townsend, but most of my listening is devoted to obscure prog from the 70's and unclassifiable music like Zappa, Magma, or even Miles Davis and John Coltrane.
9. How has the music industry changed since you started? Any stories on what to and what not to do? Have you ever grown tired of all of this and just wanted to stop?
The music industry has grown increasingly corporate and motivated by trends (i.e. instant gratification) rather than talent. Back in the 70's you didn't see thousands of pre-fabricated acts being manufactured by record companies...bands were signed on the basis of talent alone, even if the motivation was still financial gain. Furthermore, the media has catered to all of this and seldom gives a unique artist a chance anymore. What ever happened to artist development? Thankfully, the artist is more empowered than ever before with the Internet, mp3's, and cheap CD replication options, so no longer does anyone have to rely upon a corporate entity to achieve some degree of success. The drawback to that being we're subjected to a deluge of music that really does not NEED to be heard, but I'm confident the diligent consumer can weed through all the coals to locate the diamonds. My advice to anyone is to stick to your guns, don't compromise yourself for anyone, play music you believe in whole-heartedly, and do the best you possibly can. Fret not if the industry as a whole doesn't embrace you, someone out there will hear you and your music will make a difference to him or her. Unless you just totally suck that is (laughing). So don't forget to practice damn it! One more thing - do as much as you can on your own, as its far more gratifying, people are more willing to accommodate someone who is working hard, and you ultimately retain more control. As for me, the apathy we've often faced only fuels my determination to defy the odds. The state of things can certainly weigh heavily at times, but my motivations are to accurately realize what I hear, express myself sincerely, and have an album that sounds good on my own stereo. Aside from perhaps the people the songs are related to, I really don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks, and when I have nothing left to say, WHW will come to an end gracefully.
10. A lot of people consider WHW to be depressing and gloomy because of the heavy doom metal sounds, but there is an underlying expression of happiness I find within the music. What kind of reaction do you get from WHW?
I wouldn't say I get a particularly joyful feeling from the music generally, but there are aspects of some of the songs that do instill a feeling of triumph, surely due to the fact that I've overcome a lot of things personally. This doesn't make the morose parts any less poignant, and in fact the contrast probably accentuates them, but that's the way everything works; you can't have black without white, Heaven without Hell, Yin without Yang. When all is said and done, playing this music is indeed a catharsis, even if playing some songs will always open up old wounds...at least it's REAL. To know both pain and pleasure is to be alive, and while I may not have ever wanted to know this, I'm glad to say that I do.