Interview with Powerlord, November 2003
(Norwegian, for your entertainment, hehe) While Heaven Wept felte sine første tårer rundt 1990, men har hatt en del problemer med line-upen opp gjennom årene. Nå ser det ut til å ha ordnet seg og de slapp sin første full-lengder i år. Jeg tok en prat med Tom Philips, vokalist, gitarist, keyboardist og hovedmann i bandet om bandets historie, om full-lengderen og framtiden.
While Heaven Wept began weeping around 1990, but has had some problems with their line-up throughout the years. Now the pieces seem to fall in place and they released their first full length masterpiece this year. I took a chat with Tom Philips, vocalist, guitarist, keyboardist and the only remaining original member in the band about their history, the album and the future.
Good evening, first I think we'll start with the history of the band. I know you started out around 1991 and has released two EPs, is it? Could you give the readers a clearer picture of your history?
Answer: We actually started out in 1989, and although under a different name, the music was the same. I co-founded the band with another guitarist named Chris Galvan who I had played with in a melodic thrash band called Polaris. Under the moniker Dream Wytch we began composing original material inspired by everything from doom to progressive rock/metal to more extreme thrash and death metal, but there were elements of classical, new age, and even dark fusion jazz as well. Joining us from the beginning was Chris' younger brother Brendan on vocals, and eventually another ex-Polaris member came on board, drummer Jim Chappell. Almost as soon as we started, the line-up changes began as well, and by 1991, I was the only founding member to remain. That's when we officially became known as While Heaven Wept. The line-up continued to fluctuate for a few more years, finally stabilizing in 1993, yet somehow we always managed to continue developing new compositions. The trio of drummer Jon Paquin, bassist Gabriel Funston, and myself produced the debut 7" "Into The Wells of Sorrow" and the "Lovesongs Of The Forsaken" demo in 1994 (which was released officially as a MCD in 1995). WHW went on a temporary hiatus while we searched for a replacement for Gabe, who was so depressed that he could no longer function with the band. Jon and I regrouped with guitarist Kevin Hufnagel and bassist Danny Ingerson (both currently in the Relapse Records band Dysrhythmia in the middle of 1995 and started recording our debut album "Sorrow Of The Angels." These sessions were eventually shelved as I felt the climate in the studio was poor, and we weren't accurately realizing the material as I had envisioned it. Shortly afterwards, I co-founded the traditional heavy metal band Twisted Tower Dire and also joined the UK epic doom band Solstice as their new vocalist while WHW took another short break. Upon my return to the US in mid 1996, Danny, Jon and I decided to start the recording process for "Sorrow..." all over again, thus after a year of tape-trading and rehearsals, tracking for the album finally commenced in August 1997. Exactly one year later, Italy's Eibon Records released "Sorrow Of The Angels" which garnered much acclaim in the underground doom scene. Being that Danny was living a couple hundred miles away from us at that time, we elected to form a new line-up locally so that we could play shows in support of the album. Enter bassist Jim Hunter (of Revelation/Doomstone, and currently, Twisted Tower Dire fame), guitarist Scott Loose and his sister Michelle on keyboards (both from the band then called Arise From Thorns). Throughout 1999 we played a limited number of shows on the east coast of the US before yet another hiatus; I had joined Arise From Thorns in the middle of the recording of their second album "Before An Audience Of Stars," and shortly thereafter joined them onstage. I moved out of the area briefly, but returned within a couple months and continued performing countless shows with Arise From Thorns. When we began writing together that band evolved into the heavier Brave, and we recorded our debut MCD "Waist Deep In Dark Waters" in the fall of 2000. Our collaboration fractured apart in early 2001, as I was once again sinking into the depths of a personal hell and the tension between us grew musically and personally. I'd already begun refocusing on WHW, and by the time I parted was with Brave in April 2001, Jim, Scott, Jon and myself were already rehearsing the material the would ultimately appear on "Of Empires Forlorn." It became clear rather swiftly that Jon was no longer interested in WHW, and wasn't really able to handle the heavily emotional music very well either (in a mental capacity), so we went through a few more drummers before Jason Gray (ex-Forty Days Longing) joined us in late October 2001. Three months later, we were recording the "Of Empires Forlorn" album, which was initially released by Eibon Records on Valentine's Day 2003, in their typically extravagant digipak format, as a limited edition of 1,000 copies. We've since done further tracking, then re-mixed and re-mastered "Empires..." which is now available in an unlimited capacity on the UK label Rage Of Achilles in the standard jewel case. Currently we are developing the material for the follow-up, and preparing for a spring 2004 tour in Europe. I'd also like to mention that there are actually a few other singles (a split with California's Cold Mourning from 1997, and "The Drowning Years" single from 2002), as well as the 2LP Anthology "Chapter One: 1989-1999" that was released by Germany's Metal Supremacy in 2002.
WHW had some very rough times, especially in the early years of the band. Personal losses and tragedies if I'm not incorrect. This has affected your music, sending it on a journey through sorrow and melancholy. Any words about this?
Answer: It wasn't so much that the band itself had a lot of hard times beyond the ever-revolving door of line-up changes (although often the members lives' paralleled one another); rather, I personally endured a series of brutal losses of varying nature; the deaths of loved ones, deeply significant relationships ending in painful demise, a violent awakening to various realities (that shattered my own innocence prematurely)...all this further complicated by addictions and legal problems... indeed, what I have lived through has affected the music indelibly. Ultimately, I found myself alone in my own hell, asking questions without answers, and lacking the maturity to deal with very heavy circumstances at such a young age. This is how the music developed into a long and often painful soul-search, which has continued to this day. I would like to articulate that seldom have I ever blamed anyone other than myself for my own downfalls, and the music is often an A-B conversation...directed towards specific people, related to specific events. This has never been an exercise in self-pity or some pathetic attempt to place the blame elsewhere (ala many "Nu Metal" acts). If anything, it's the embodiment of bereavement...from shock and disbelief, to anger, to depression, even horror...but ultimately acceptance. Therefore it could be said that WHW is a process of healing. A long, rending, and arduous process. Needless to say, the focus of the first decade of WHW was upon a specific relationship and its demise...I suppose she became my muse if you will. Eventually, after several recordings and even more time, there was finally a sense of closure (although not completely until this past year) as far as that particular subject was concerned. Being that relationship ended over 13 years ago, as you can imagine, quite a bit has transpired since then, and really, that's where the "Empires" album begins - involving a plethora of people, relationships, and circumstances - everything I've endured in the succeeding years. The drowning years.
Will you always keep your sorrows close, so that it is easier to make music filled with sorrow?
Answer: There are some things that will never be erased, that will always be mourned, but with time and purgation, many of the wounds are naught but scars. Mind you, they can still be torn open, particularly through brooding contemplation, but for the most part, in many instances, I've achieved some degree of healing...acceptance...closure...whatever you want to call it. That would partially explain the aural paradox of hopeless tragedy juxtaposed against heroic triumph on the latest album; that's quite a growth from the suicidal music that preceded "Empires..." Thus, while there will always be these echoes and effigies somewhere inside of me, I'll never make any music simply for the sake of doing so. I play what I feel period. Everything comes through revelation and emotional need; in even the recent past, I was quite depressed, therefore the music from that era is sorrow filled...but that does not mean it will always be the case. I do not play doom for the sake of doom. In fact, because of various frustrations and circumstances, I've been rather pissed off as of late, and the latest material reflects that aggression. What you can always expect from WHW are the melodic and epic aspects, and music of deep integrity, brutal honesty...based upon where we are at any given moment. Life experience is the only boundary.
What did you play/do before you came up with WHW, and how did you come up with the idea, and why doom metal?
Answer: Being that this band started when I was barely 15 years old, I didn't do a whole hell of a lot before it! Immediately before Dream Wytch/WHW, I was involved with Polaris, as were many of the founding members - only one demo was every recorded, and the mastertapes are probably long gone, but there were some pretty good melodic thrash songs on there actually, none of which I personally wrote. Prior to that I had been working on a black metal band called Mephistopheles that was essentially inspired by Venom, Slayer, Bathory, and Mercyful Fate. Nothing ever became of that project other than a wealth of lyrics and a handful of songs. I started writing songs much earlier than that and they ranged from ballads to full on metal. Hopefully no one ever uncovers those rehearsal tapes (laughing)! As for While Heaven Wept, when we first came together as Dream Wytch, the motivation was strictly musical - striving to fuse together disparate elements from all the styles we enjoyed. WHW proper was born out of necessity...the need for expression and catharsis...trying to understand all that had transpired and finding some way to cope and to grieve. We never set out to be doom metal specifically...that's really just what people called the music I bled. That's not to say there wasn't a doom influence, but we never intended to be a doom band specifically. Over the years our music has become synonymous with doom metal, and I've embraced that categorization, even brandished it, but the truth is there's always been something more to WHW than doom alone.
WHWs mesterverk kom tidligere i år og jeg merker at flere nordmenn har lagt merke til bandet etter de gode tilbakemeldingene de har fått for skiven. Selv hadde jeg nesten ikke hørt på doommetall før og While Heaven Wept hadde jeg aldri hørt om før jeg leste om det i Scream Magazine (www.scream.no). Skiva ble beskrevet som "noe av det vakreste jeg har hørt på skive" av Kringen, og jeg er meget enig! Atmosfærisk, sorgfult og vakkert er nøkkelord her!
WHWs masterpiece came earlier this year and I've seen that many Norwegians have noticed this band after the great reviews they got for their album. I'd barely heard doom metal before and I hadn't heard about While Heaven Wept untill I read the review in Scream Magazine (www.scream.no) The album was described as "one of the most beautiful things I've heard on a record" by Kringen, and I totally agree! Atmospheric, melancholic and beautiful are keywords on this album!
Are you satisfied with the album? How have the feedback and reviews been, and was it more than you expected?
Answer: This is perhaps the first recording that I am almost completely satisfied with out of everything I've ever done with any band, including WHW. There was a very strong emotional catalyst and a clear vision of what I heard in my head, and we managed to preserve all of that, by investing a lot of time, heart, and our own money in the realization of "Empires." The fact that on my stereo it sounds like what I heard all along, and that it conveys exactly what I was feeling is the very definition of success for me. Mind you, the album did take on a life of its own towards the end of the recording process, and we allowed it to bloom into what it did, so in that respect it is perhaps beyond my expectations. Plus, we managed to capture some truly magical performances without a doubt. The response to the album has been nearly universally positive, and that is extremely gratifying...it means a lot more when it affects so many people so deeply...but even if it had been panned by the critics, as I said, it's the most accurate realization it could possibly be all things considered, thus my greatest success on a personal level.
Why the title "Of Empires Forlorn"? Just something you just came up with while showering, or does it have a very deep meaning?
Answer: "Of Empires Forlorn" on the surface level refers to the vast wasteland I reigned over in my personal hell, banished from the people and places once so vital to me. There are many very specific references only a select number of people would ever recognize, and that is entirely intentional. Looking further into it, one may find the entire piece is a metaphor for the fall of Lucifer, and the evolution of The Satan. I'd rather not say anything else at this time other than the story does not end there...
The song Epistle No. 81 is originally a Swedish traditional hymn, how did you stumble over that idea?
Answer: The first version of "Epistle No.81" I heard was actually the Candlemass interpretation on the "Ancient Dreams" album, and really the reason I came to love the piece so much. Over the years, I've heard numerous versions of the song that vary significantly in style, but I decided to base my arrangement on Leif Edling's, being that it was my introduction to Bellman's composition. It was a pretty challenging piece for me vocally, and our version tends to ironically speed up (like we can't wait to get into the grave!), but overall I'm pleased with the way it turned out. I especially like the "trance guitars" and organ work I developed for it. I'd be curious to hear what some Swedes thought of it that's for sure considering we hail from the States, and also because of the unorthodox performance. Regardless, it was done with the utmost respect and it fits well within the context of our other material.
What is your favourite part of the album? Both lyrically and musically.
Answer: Every song is so different from each other that it's hard for me to choose favourites. I would have to say that "Soulsadness" and "Of Empires Forlorn" lyrically are the most poignant on a surface level for me, perhaps because I understand some of the complex dualities woven into the imagery. Musically, there are certain passages in all of the songs that have a particular "hook" for me - for example, the evolving counterpoint at the end of "The Drowning Years," the black metal segment of the title track, the guitar leads on "Voice In The Wind," and the Sabbathy riffs that close "Soulsadness" all have their own appeal to me. I think collectively the band decided that "Soulsadness" is the most successful song in terms of performance, production, and emotional impact, although "Voice In The Wind" is a close second.
Has While Heaven Wept ever played live? If not, are you planning to play live, and will you be coming to Norway then? There is not enough sorrow and doom here, you know. We still sit in the woods and just mainly beeing grim, and creating black metal. So it would be nice to see and hopefully hear you here in Norway!
Answer: We have played live in the past, and are preparing to tour in Europe in the spring of 2004 as I mentioned previously. A WHW live performance is pretty rare considering the personal nature of the material, but we do make exceptions, particularly for larger festivals. At the time of this interview we are confirmed as one of the headliners for the Doom Shall Rise II festival in Germany ( www.doomshallrise.tk ), as well as Belgian Doom Night that will take place in Gent. There will be several dates between those events, primarily in Germany, however we have at least two shows confirmed in The Netherlands as well. Among some of the bands supporting us are: Mourning Beloveth, Officium Triste, Whispering Gallery, and Pantheist. We're also scheduled to appear at the Northern Lights 2004 Festival in Toronto, Canada in June (sponsored by Unrestrained magazine) alongside acts as diverse as Melechesh, Kult Of Azazel, and Aesma Daeva. In the autumn, we'll return to Europe for a couple dates in Greece as well. Unfortunately, there are no plans currently to perform in Scandinavia, however considering some of our friends from Finland, Spiritus Mortis have just signed with Rage Of Achilles Records as well, its possible that we may arrange something in the future. Really, it is all dictated by demand more than anything else, so if there are some promoters out there who want WHW in Norway...don't hesitate to contact us!
And the most important question: when will your next masterpiece fill my ears? Already started or are you just taking it easy now?
Answer: Before we even entered the studio to record "Of Empires Forlorn," we already had developed a substantial amount of material for the next album. Since the completion of "Empires," we've continued to work on even more material, and intend to amass a large body of music before determining the final tracklisting of the next album. What I can tell you is this, it will be called "Vast Oceans Lachrymose," and the material is even more diverse than that of "Empires..." We have some of the most aggressive material WHW has ever written alongside of some of the most beautiful. It will be another epic and powerful journey that is for certain. I'd expect it to be released sometime in 2005, along with our re-recorded 1998 album "Sorrow Of The Angels," which is long out-of-print.
Now over to some different questions. Any favourite band from Norway, or Scandinavia?
Answer: I listen to a lot of Scandinavian music personally, so I have numerous favourites really. For the last few years, Arcturus have remained at the top of my list, but others include In The Woods, Ulver, Immortal, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Enslaved, Emperor, and some obscure prog like Akasha speaking strictly of Norway. For Scandinavia as a whole I'd have to mention Bathory and Candlemass for certain, Anglagard, Anekdoten, Landberk, Katatonia, really this list could be quite endless!
And your absolute favourite album from the USA is?
Answer: Again this is one of those "unanswerable questions" given the vast amount of music in my collection, but here are a few candidates: Fates Warning - "Awaken The Guardian," Manowar - "Hail To England," Queensryche - "Rage For Order." Not to mention numerous underground classics from the likes of Manilla Road, Brocas Helm, Trouble, Pentagram, etc. And shamelessly, everything from the Steve Perry era of Journey!
Last, but not least, any words for the fans, mother earth, or aliens reading this?
Answer: First of all, thank you Magnus for the opportunity to express myself and discuss "Of Empires Forlorn," it is very much appreciated. Hail to Norway as well for being receptive to our music, and also for birthing some of the greatest music of all time. Anyone is more than welcome to contact us directly through our website, www.whileheavenwept.net , and hopefully we'll see you on tour sometime in the future. Doom Onward...
Thank you very much for your time and keep on creating beauty in metal!I think we in Norway will be forever weeping! Good luck in the future! From the cradle to the grave with doom!