Interview with Scream Magazine #141, October 2009

I guess it’s been asked at least a dozen times already, but why did it take so long to get this album out?

After the last EU tour in 2004, the existing band had fractured apart and it took a couple months to regroup with Trevor on drums, but once we had that sorted, we began rehearsing the material for “Vast Oceans Lachrymose” immediately. Several studios offered us free time to test their facilities, but it was Salamone’s Recording Studio that we agreed upon unanimously. Early in 2005 and throughout 2006, we recorded all of the basic tracks for the album, and moved on to overdubs, but somewhere in the middle of this process, I decided it might be best to procure all of the musical equipment we’d ever dreamed of before completing the album, so as to avoid the urge to re-record anything later. This “tonequest” was very expensive and time-consuming, but ultimately rewarding; in the end, I ended up designing several custom instruments specifically made for the music of WHW, but of course this took another year to accomplish. By the time I had acquired all of the gear necessary to complete the album, I was exhausted and so were our finances; WHW albums always take longer to create compared to most bands, because we’ve self-financed every last one of them – but we’re not wealthy by any means, and in fact, we all live from paycheck-to-paycheck, so you can imagine how this impacts studio ventures, especially given my penchant for perfectionism.

The folding of both Rage Of Achilles Records and then subsequently Black Lotus Records certainly wiped out our basis of support as well. Meanwhile, the other members’ bands were busy recording and/or gigging in support of their latest releases too, so that meant more waiting to complete “VOL,” but probably the biggest delays at this point (late 2007-mid 2008) were related to familial responsibilities – babies being born, marriages, etc. During this time, I found myself quite distanced from the material as well as my personal circumstances had changed…I wanted to give a new relationship an honest chance, without the pressure of WHW impacting it. Needless to say, this ended up being the most devastating relationship of my life, and at the end of it, I felt worse than I had in 19 years…not since the very beginning of WHW, had I reached such a low point, where I was suicidal, drinking every day away, unsure if I’d ever recover. Things spiraled further downward for me with the news my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer – less than a year after finding out my oldest brother had leukemia. I just wasn’t sure if I’d ever recover from all this, especially with a heart that was completely destroyed…many nights I sat alone wondering if I’d ever find my way out again…I thought that “man, you’ve been through hell many times before, how did you find your way out then?” – The answer finally became clear: While Heaven Wept. After a few small steps towards the recording of a new single (just to get back on my feet and determine if WHW COULD go on), the focus soon shifted towards the unfinished “VOL” album and from May 2009 onward, I worked non-stop on this…delivering the masters no less than 4 weeks late.

One could easily get the impression that you are a perfectionist. For instance, do you pay a lot of attention to details in your composition?

Hmm, it seems there is some kind of rumor of this ilk indeed…let me just put it this way, after I left the studio in 1998 with the master of “Sorrow Of The Angels” in my hands feeling nothing but bad about it (having rushed it to completion for financial reasons), I made a promise to myself that I’d never let that happen ever again…at any cost. And let me tell you Leif, WHW has cost me a lot over the years – an unbelievable amount of cash, friendships, opportunities, romances…are these sacrifices worth the cost of not compromising? I’d say for the most part yes…it’s just the emotional aspects that are sometimes hard to bear.
Regarding details in terms of composition, let me just say that not a single note or lyric in the entire WHW discography has ever been forced into being; not once have I ever sat at a table and written anything (I’m talking as far as basic structures, riffs, melodies). It’s only after the songs have written themselves that I’ll work out arrangements and so forth. The music of WHW is the result of pure emotion and revelation exclusively, and this is why, as inferred earlier, I cannot do it unless my heart is truly in it.

Some people might think that no musician will ever release something that he or she isn’t 100 percent satisfied with, but with limitations in studio time and budgets, we both know that this isn’t always the case. What about yourself, is it frustrating to have to put the release date forward several times to get more time to work on getting the album just the way you want, or is this an easy decision?

Well, don’t let Enrico (of Cruz Del Sur Music) hear me saying this, but I don’t even give it a second thought; if the album isn’t done, if it isn’t “right” – then it simply is not, and no amount of pressure is going to change that. As I’ve said, after “Sorrow of the Angels,” I’ll never let another release out before it is truly done in my own estimation. Ultimately, there must be a point of compromise or albums would never be finished…I do know this, but the margin of compromise for WHW is very small. Of course, it is frustrating to push release dates forward only because you know there’s an audience waiting…but considering WHW is first and foremost about our own personal need for expression, I’d like to think that those who support us would be more forgiving in light of this; if we’re not feeling it, chances are no one else will either.

Even if you find an album to be “perfect” right now, for most of us there is always the risk of finding something that you are not satisfied with after some time. How do you see this? For instance, are there aspects about “Of Empires Forlorn” that you would like to change?

Sure, this is inevitable…and not only are there things that I’d personally change about “Of Empires Forlorn,” the truth is I could’ve easily spent another 6 months working on “VOL” too!!! That being said, at this point (with regard to both of those albums), any changes would involve details and minutia…some of which would likely go unnoticed by anyone other than those most intimately involved with the records. I’m talking about the amount of reverb on this or that, whether the sub-frequencies go down to 50 cycles vs. 60, a dB more of a vocal or guitar, etc. All that said, we’ll revisit “Empires” along with “Sorrow of the Angels” after the next album “Fear Of Infinity” has been completed.

On you last album” Of Empires Forlorn” you handled the vocals yourself; on the new album you have a new singer by the name of Rain Irving. Where did you find Rain? Personally I remember him from Altura which released an album back in the mid-nineties, but it might not have been his performance here that convinced you?

Back at the time the Altura album “Mercy” came out, I was working for Tower Records, and I received a promo copy of it, thought it was a good album amongst the usual droll, and held on to it. More than a decade later, I received a message via our MySpace page from Rain Irving, who simply wanted to drop us a line letting us know how much he like “Empires” – I dug out that old promo CD, and realized that this was in fact the same Rain Irving who sang for Altura. I listened to some of his post-Altura work in the form of Every Waking Hour and Nailed and was impressed with the quality of his vocals…and what I mean is a specific timbre. I also noticed he had very similar influences, but most of all that he lived right here in Virginia, so I threw the idea of him singing for WHW out there – which caught him off guard, but he decided he’d give it a go. Many emails and mp3’s were exchanged over a year’s time, and while all these gave us the impression Rain was the right singer for us, it wasn’t until I drove out to his house earlier this year, where we demoed some of the tracks for the album that it was crystal clear…in terms of ability, chemistry, integrity…a collaboration between WHW and Rain was just “right.”

Did you write the songs to be sung by yourself? I am asking cause, even though there is a new voice there, one could very much hear, almost by just listening to the vocals, that this is WHW.

Despite the fact that I’d been looking for a proper singer many years, I’d pretty much accepted that I’d most likely end up singing at least one more album, so I more or less had all of the melodies in my head already, barring a couple tracks whose lyrics were not finalized until after the traumas of early 2009. I did not however approach Rain with these melodies directly, rather, I wanted to give him complete freedom to see how he interpreted the lyrics and so forth. He did come up with some great ideas, and we even utilized some of them ultimately, but I guess having lived with some of these songs for so long, I was intent on hearing them a certain way. Additionally, once we finalized the melodies and harmonies, I spent a long time “coaching” Rain on how I’d have sung them, even going so far as to create rough vocal demos myself, so that he may emulate specific qualities of my voice, without losing his own identity. In my opinion, it’s the best of both worlds, and for me, I much prefer hearing Rain sing these myself, that’s for sure! He did a killer job!

Would you say that “Vast Oceans Lachrymose” is a concept album?

Technically, just like “Empires” or “Sorrow of the Angels” it’s thematic rather than conceptual, but if one were to approach “VOL” from a Tarantino standpoint, and alter the order of songs, a clear story does emerge. I don’t want to influence how anyone else interprets this album, but it is indeed an autobiography (albeit out of chronological order).

On your homepage, you write that “Vast Oceans Lachrymose” was first discussed 14 years ago. What do you mean by this, are the material on here that old, or did you come up with the title and the concept that long ago? Does the final product differ a lot from the visions you had back then?

The “VOL” album was originally intended to be released in 1996, and I’d been discussing in interviews since 1995! Some of the material that ultimately does appear on “Vast Oceans Lachrymose” does in fact date back to 1993 including “To Wander The Void” and “Vessel” – although lyrically they’ve changed, and have had several working titles throughout the years - musically they’re nearly identical to their earliest incarnations. The rest of the songs are rather old as well, in that they were all written prior to the recording of the “Empires” album, but in the last couple months all of them developed further in the studio. I guess my original vision for “Vast Oceans Lachrymose” was to have an album of “water songs” but instead the spirit and motion of water was woven into all of the music itself, albeit unintentionally (several colleagues have mentioned the “flow” and sensation of water throughout the music itself, regardless of the lyrical content). I certainly envisioned more of a “blue” album, but what “VOL” ultimately became is true to our hearts and souls today.

Apart from Rain, you have added some more members to your lineup after the recording of “Of Empires Forlorn”. You have a new drummer and also a permanent member on keyboards. I guess the addition of a keyboard player can have something to do with what you want to achieve in a live situation? Also why did you bring in Trevor to replace your old drummer Jason?

The truth is, Michelle has been playing keyboards with us live since 1999 and she did in fact appear on the Rage Of Achilles version of “Empires” as well…it’s just that at the time we started recording “Empires” originally, there was still something of a rift between myself and the other members of Brave (apart from Michelle’s brother Scott, who continued working with me even during that difficult time). All that has been resolved over the years, and that is exactly what made it possible for us to collaborate once again with Trevor (he’d worked on some of the “Empires” material with us before the falling out)…for me, I felt it was important to make sure both Trevor and Michelle felt as though they were full-time, valued members of WHW, because they are. As for what happened with Jason…things started fracturing in the middle of the 2004 tour, and later we had some conflicts regarding band business that made it impossible to continue working together. Fortunately, though it was an emotional separation, now everyone is cool again and all in a much better place. Musically, I think Trevor also brings different skills to the table compared to Jason, and I know this was also necessary in some capacity as well, but we very well could’ve continued working with Jason had these other matters not arisen.

Apart from yourself, I think more or less everyone in the band is involved in other projects as well, I guess this is something you just have to accept as long as WHW take their time with each release and also, at least in the past, hasn’t gigged that much…

I’ve accepted that everyone else has other needs musically, and so do I (I’ve been involved with my share of other projects over the years too). The bottom line is that all of the people involved with WHW now are people that I want to work with, first of all because we’re family - with relationships stretching back more than a decade, and secondly, because of the musical abilities each one of them brings to the table. In the past, I’ve had no problem sitting on the sidelines while Twisted Tower Dire or Brave were recording or gigging, but the ambition now is to better coordinate between all the bands, so that WHW may have its time as well.

Let’s talk a little bit about each of the songs on the album. The opener “The Furthest Shore” is the longest song on here, clocking in at over 15 minutes. It starts off in a quite aggressive way, but the song is very diverse with faster and slower parts mixed. Why did you choose it as the opener, and what did you aim for with this composition?

“The Furthest Shore” was intended to be the lead-off track on the album since 2001, primarily because we knew it would be somewhat shocking for longtime listeners due to the opening salvo. I know in some ways, to open with a 16 minute song is asking a bit much of the listener, but we’ve always considered it to be 7 songs within 1 song, filled with twists and turns, finally ending in one of the most symphonic moments in the WHW discography…seemed to make for a fitting end to Side 1 of the LP (we always think in terms of vinyl first and foremost). The only “aim,” as with all WHW songs was purity of emotion, sincerity, and impassioned performance…I feel as if we’ve achieved this.

“To Wander The Void” makes me think of progressive metal, and especially Fates Warning around “The Spectre Within” and “Awaken The Guardian”. The vocals, and especially the nanana-parts is soo John Arch…

The best way to summarize “To Wander The Void” for me is exactly what I wrote in the liner notes for “VOL”: ‘Although “To Wander The Void” is as deeply personal as all WHW compositions, it is also something of a tribute to Fates Warning – one of our earliest influences, whose rich musical legacy still continues to inspire us to this day.’ It is one of my absolute favorite songs to play live, simply because of the chugging, powerful riffing.

“Living Sepulchre” must be one of the shortest and also fastest songs you have ever written?

It is very much short and to the point, but a song of complete madness as well…I mean consider there are vocal and guitar harmonies ala Queen juxtaposed against almost black metal chord progressions in “Living Sepulchre” – believe it or not, it sounds almost identical to what I heard in my head! Actually, there are a few short and fast songs coming on “Fear Of Infinity” as well, and it’s important for us to keep things diverse – especially in a live setting; we’ve got quite a few long, drawn-out songs, so it’s good to have a few that are more immediate, but no less poignant.

“Vessel” is a very beautiful song that you also have performed live. What function does this track have on the album as a whole?

In terms of the overall flow of the album, and especially after the insanity of “Living Sepulchre” just prior, “Vessel” provides a very much needed shift in the album, which up to this point is relentless and nearly overwhelming. This isn’t to say that “Vessel” isn’t overwhelming in and of itself, but in a different way…for me, it is the most deeply heartfelt song on the album and it means a lot to me. It’s also very deceiving in that on the surface, it’s a proposal, a song of hope…but if you figure out the correct order chronological order of the songs, it’s a quite different result. That isn’t to say it has as much of a dual meaning as a lot of the other WHW songs, but it certainly has come to mean more now…now that the vessel is but flotsam.

Up next are two instrumentals which calm things down. Were they made to round off the album?

Much like “The Furthest Shore,” the title track was always intended to be the album’s closer, partially because it is perhaps the most familiar song in terms of the “classic WHW sound” – and it totally is a natural evolution from the ending section of “The Drowning Years;” It further explores the aural paradox of WHW music being incredibly uplifting and utterly devastating simultaneously…with different results for each listener. However, just to make clear WHW hasn’t suddenly turned into an inspirational ensemble, “Epilogue” not only instantly changes the character of the album to something darker and more introspective, it also foreshadows the darkness that permeates the forthcoming “Fear Of Infinity” album.

“Vast Oceans Lachrymose” is in my opinion very different from “Of Empires Forlorn”. For instance, I would not call WHW a pure doom metal-band anymore. Did you have an ambition to do something different this time around, or is the album more a result of a development inside the band?

For the record, I haven’t considered WHW a pure doom metal band since 1999, when we closed the first chapter; in the past I’ve been one of the proponents of clarifying the correct definition of doom metal, and despite this, I don’t consider my own band to fall under those parameters, though it may be closely related. To me “Of Empires Forlorn” was really just a modern interpretation of some classic 70s symphonic rock ala Novalis, Jane, Pulsar, etc. Regarding “Vast Oceans Lachrymose,” in some ways it very much is a logical progression/natural evolution, but even more so it is the revealing of facets of WHW that we’ve always known to exist, but had not displayed prior to this. There’s quite a bit of material remaining in “the archives” as you could imagine after having only released 3 full-lengths in 20 years, and forthcoming releases like “Fear Of Infinity” will further clarify to all who would listen just what “WHW Music” is…frankly, this is the only label that really works for me.

You are already confirmed for the next edition of Hammer Of Doom in Germany. Will we see WHW in Europe more frequently in the future?

Absolutely…at the moment we’re thinking more along the lines of shorter trips to specific geographic locations, perhaps revolving around a festival or something as opposed to a full-blown tour. Not that we’re opposed to something like that, but it would have to be something lucrative as everyone here has day jobs and most have families apart from myself and Jim. I don’t mean in financial terms per se, but a good billing or something special would make it easier to justify. Either way, you can be damn sure we’ll be over again after Hammer Of Doom III in February, albeit later in the year.

Thanks for your time

Thank YOU for the opportunity to discuss “VOL” and for the kind words regarding it.